CF03GT Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Are they cheaper as well? Yes they are Cody.. 8 bucks a tire. We'll be going through a set a weekend with our heavy asses on those Miata tires.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Get some weight off those cars I know you can over come the tires and this gives you guys the opportunity to do what you have been asking the rest of us to do. Put the best possible car together under the existing rules and prove its slower with a large amount of data. If you do this and it is proven to be slower I bet you will get your bigger tires back. Btw are you going to road Atlanta in Dec? I am! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF03GT Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 I hear ya. Cool! Be great to have you in the mix. Yhea man, I'll be there. Think we've got a few other (fast) guys coming in from other regions as well. Makes the weekend even more exciting! Drag a few more of the boys down if you can. Ps. Bring your party hat.. we tend to have a little more fun than usual during this event Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry klamecki Posted November 19, 2011 Share Posted November 19, 2011 Al, Would you please post the data/facts which formed the basis for deeming the S197 chassis superior and the methodology the directors used to determine the new tire size. Thank you. Larry Klamecki 2006 Mustang CMC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houstonnw Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Al,Would you please post the data/facts which formed the basis for deeming the S197 chassis superior and the methodology the directors used to determine the new tire size. Thank you. Larry Klamecki 2006 Mustang CMC And while he is at it, maybe he can post why my LS1 4th Gen Camaro has a weight penalty too. Wayne Stehle 1998 Camaro CMC Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_Lemke Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Is this inconsistency on purpose?: The 94 Cobra is clearly allowed: 5. ELIGIBLE MANUFACTURERS/MODELS Manufacturers: Ford Motor Company (Early Ford) Eligible Early Ford makes and models: 1979-95 Ford Mustang with 5.0 V8 including 1993-1995 Cobra (1993 and 1995 Cobra R models excluded) But the 94 Cobras is missing here?: 7.4 Allowed Body components and Update/Backdate of Body Components 4. 1994-1996 Mustang base model, GT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Is this inconsistency on purpose?: The 94 Cobra is clearly allowed: 5. ELIGIBLE MANUFACTURERS/MODELS Manufacturers: Ford Motor Company (Early Ford) Eligible Early Ford makes and models: 1979-95 Ford Mustang with 5.0 V8 including 1993-1995 Cobra (1993 and 1995 Cobra R models excluded) But the 94 Cobras is missing here?: 7.4 Allowed Body components and Update/Backdate of Body Components 4. 1994-1996 Mustang base model, GT This was already brought up... basically because i have a 94 cobra.. i believe it was a typo.. the 94 cobras are ok. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Al,Would you please post the data/facts which formed the basis for deeming the S197 chassis superior and the methodology the directors used to determine the new tire size. Thank you. Larry Klamecki 2006 Mustang CMC And while he is at it, maybe he can post why my LS1 4th Gen Camaro has a weight penalty too. Wayne Stehle 1998 Camaro CMC Would you allow me to swap my LT1 out for a motor that is 75lbs lighter and still run at 3200lbs? That is 75lbs off the nose of a 4th gen. And yet, there is only a 50lb penalty. Seems fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF03GT Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Al,Would you please post the data/facts which formed the basis for deeming the S197 chassis superior and the methodology the directors used to determine the new tire size. Thank you. Larry Klamecki 2006 Mustang CMC I wasent going to get started here, but since you brought it up.. Yhea! Whats the story Al?? Wayne- The S197 also has the weight penalty. Why dont you try throwing some bicycle tires on that thing and let us know how you feel about that! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G_Lemke Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Bluebandit: I saw your earlier post, but the answer from Glenn contained an error in the second sentence and in the third sentence it was not clear if by "already covered" he was trying to say it was legal or illegal. I just don't want to find out my car is legal, except for the nose. The error: "I don't understand why the 97-98 Cobra needs to be added to the list? The car is not legal." vs: 5. ELIGIBLE MANUFACTURERS/MODELS Manufacturers: Ford Motor Company (Early Ford) 1996-04 Ford Mustang with 4.6 DOHC N/A V8* (2000 Cobra R and 2003-2004 Cobra models excluded) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 20, 2011 Share Posted November 20, 2011 Never mind. Someone pointed it out to me. Should clear up my comments. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houstonnw Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Al,Would you please post the data/facts which formed the basis for deeming the S197 chassis superior and the methodology the directors used to determine the new tire size. Thank you. Larry Klamecki 2006 Mustang CMC I wasent going to get started here, but since you brought it up.. Yhea! Whats the story Al?? Wayne- The S197 also has the weight penalty. Why dont you try throwing some bicycle tires on that thing and let us know how you feel about that! My point was, or was supposed to be, that other platforms have also received penalties in the past. I'm not sure why the S197 owners feel so picked on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
capaldi22 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 My big question is why the tire was chosen over all options to slow the cars down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
larry klamecki Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Merely asking for facts and methodology, not arguing. Larry Klamecki 2006 Mustang Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Al,Would you please post the data/facts which formed the basis for deeming the S197 chassis superior and the methodology the directors used to determine the new tire size. Thank you. Larry Klamecki 2006 Mustang CMC I wasent going to get started here, but since you brought it up.. Yhea! Whats the story Al?? Wayne- The S197 also has the weight penalty. Why dont you try throwing some bicycle tires on that thing and let us know how you feel about that! My point was, or was supposed to be, that other platforms have also received penalties in the past. I'm not sure why the S197 owners feel so picked on. Penalty? or parity adjustment? Glass half full? or empty? According to Capaldi, only S197 owners are capable of prepping a race car. Now where have I heard a similar proclamation before? where was it? hmmm ... let me think ... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Ooo....ooohhh pick me, I know. Is the answer, every other platform at some point, Bob? I recall saying it myself. As far slowing the cars down, what would you suggest? They are already competitive carrying an extra 250 pounds should they have to run at 350 pounds over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den341548534727 Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 Is the answer, every other platform at some point, Bob? Yourrrr right! Now, on to the bonus round! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 My personal thought was to put the S-197 at 3400lbs and w/ 255's. Since I've seen here that the S-197 can't possibly get to 3250lbs, that would seem fair. But, w/ the way it is set in the rules for 2012, I got cold hard cash that says we see them down to 3250'ish in 2012 while on the 235's. This will sort of "force thier hands". Anyone w/ an S-197 wanna offer up a weight of thier car w/out fuel and w/out driver (so the numbers can be apples to apples)? My 4th gen is 2900-2925lbs w/ no fuel and no driver. W/ me and a full fuel load starting the race, my post race weight is normally 3240-3250lbs. I would bet more good money that if my 4th gen had all the "bell's and whistle's" that some of the S-197's have, I would declair I couldn't get anywhere close to 3250lbs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastntim Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 I have and the total is 26 of the 275/40-17. AI just posted that they are going back to RA1. You might be able to find someone that still runs 17's in that class. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevepoe Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 3,250 is not very hard to get to in a s197 car....... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF03GT Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (edited) We came off the scales at 3261 post race w/ driver and empty tank at Nats. I'm guessing I weigh 190 w/ helmet, suit, hans (I'm 175 bone nekkid). This weight issue, isnt really an issue. Anders has some more to lose, but think the rest of us 197's are right there close to the 3250 minimum (those of us under 260hp).. have been. Edited November 21, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevepoe Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (I'm 175 bone nekkid). what a painful sight that just ran through my mind........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CF03GT Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 (I'm 175 bone nekkid). what a painful sight that just ran through my mind........ Jealousy will get you no where... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 We came off the scales at 3261 post race w/ driver and empty tank at Nats. I'm guessing I weigh 190 w/ helmet, suit, hans (I'm 175 bone nekkid). This weight issue, isnt really an issue. Anders has some more to lose, but think the rest of us 197's are right there close to the 3250 minimum (those of us under 260hp).. have been. Thanks. Just wanted to be sure it was a measurement you could get to. Did that include a coolsuit? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted November 21, 2011 Share Posted November 21, 2011 My big question is why the tire was chosen over all options to slow the cars down. Given that Anders car was 280lbs OVER the minimum during the championship race, how far do we go? Reducing HP was another idea, but we agreed that limiting tire size was a better option. Poe, Chris - get a room. Here's a nice, big chunk of reality - no matter what we did, someone was going to be unhappy. I think Al summed it up best: Now...I will freely admit that we could be wrong. Maybe by a little, maybe by a lot. We will therefore continue to look at this as the race results come in and if we need to do more, we'll do more. If we need to do less, we'll do less. The bottom line is we will continue to actively manage the performance capability of the different platforms in order to ensure folks dont win or lose CMC by choosing which platform to build. That said.....Mr. Capaldi.....cinch up your big boy pants, buy some 235 RA1s, keep racing in CMC and do your best to prove we may have made a mistake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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