Members Al F. Posted September 7, 2012 Members Share Posted September 7, 2012 NASA announced the development of a new tire here at the Championships: the Toyo RR. The new tire is almost a slick, with two circumferential grooves, and will not require shaving. Development and testing was done hand in hand with NASA using NASA cars and drivers. Well have more details when NASA makes formal announcements but I know this: it's a bunch faster than the RA1. I've heard upwards of 2 seconds a lap faster. I've also heard it ran an entire six hour enduro with no loss of lap times. 944spec and Honda Challenge will move to the RR for 2013. No word on bulk availability of bigger sizes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Interesting. It sounds like just some preliminary information at this point. But, longevity, meaning number of heat cycles, and the cost should be major factors in evaluating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted September 7, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 7, 2012 A couple of corrections on what I posted above: 944spec, spec e30, and spec miata are the classes starting 2013 on the RR, and RA1s will also be allowed. Also, it wasn't one six hour enduro the RR was tested on, it was two consecutive 3hr enduros. More information I have learned... Price target is intended to be equal to the ra1. Several tire shops have already listed them at 16$ more than an ra1...but the RR doesn't get shaved so it appears to be price neutral. One of the goals of the tire was to enable changing without requiring setup changes (as with the 888). Testing was back to back with ra1s for that purpose. Testing has included running the tire through 18+ heat cycles with consistent lap times. That is a good thing, and supports the notion that NASA wanted a tire that is consistent until it cords. I don't know how long those sessions were so it's not readily possible to translate that to a total life expectancy in terms of time on track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastntim Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I think it will be a year or two until you see them making sizes that we might run on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I think it will be a year or two until you see them making sizes that we might run on. I would hope we get a year or so notice to plan for this tire. A lot of people lost big $$ selling RA1's, buying 888's, selling 888's, and buying RA1's. I would hate to see people go out and buy brand new RA1's only to find out a month later we are switching to the new RR's. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastntim Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 Since they are not even making the sizes that we need, I'm guessing it won't be anytime soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllZWay Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I still have an expensive yet useless set of full tread 888's in my shop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls168camaro Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I still have an expensive yet useless set of full tread 888's in my shop. Let me run them in an Enduro. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aschroeder Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 So what about rain tires? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted September 7, 2012 Share Posted September 7, 2012 I still have an expensive yet useless set of full tread 888's in my shop. Let me run them in an Enduro. Have fun if he lets you use them. Sam, Jay and I ran a set of 888's in the enduro last year and it was like having four flats. These were old tires Tony G bought when the 888 first came out (full treads). Like driving on ice. JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllZWay Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 I still have an expensive yet useless set of full tread 888's in my shop. Let me run them in an Enduro. I have been willing to donate them for an enduro... as long as I get to drive too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 So what about rain tires? It has been said many times. The RA1 (full tread) will be the rain tire (If we switch). I wonder if the R888 would be a better pick w/ its angled groove pattern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsmith350 Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 So what about rain tires? It has been said many times. The RA1 (full tread) will be the rain tire (If we switch). I wonder if the R888 would be a better pick w/ its angled groove pattern. Thought they stopped making the 888, they should advertise that as a drift tire Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted September 8, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 8, 2012 The 888 outsells the ra1 by over 2 to 1. Just cause we don't like it doesn't mean everyone also doesn't. 275 rrs won't be available until summer 2013 so at earliest it'd be a 2014 change for us. It could be much later. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADVENM Posted September 8, 2012 Share Posted September 8, 2012 Before I ask more questions I'll start by asking if the new RR's will be required (should we go that route) or will they be an option and we can still run the RA1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Al F. Posted September 9, 2012 Author Members Share Posted September 9, 2012 My understanding is the rrs are significantly faster, to the tune of around 2 seconds a lap. In other words, once we allow them, they'd become required for all practical purposes. The classes that are going to them are allowing either the RR or the ra1, intendInv folks would use the ra1 in wet sessions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BADVENM Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I guess my question and/or concern (maybe others too) is that if they become required I can only carry another full set of tires/wheels in the back of my truck. Will they be RA1's or will they be RR's? Like Texas our races are usually dry, however we all know that it can rain and in some instances (like Rocky Mountain region) snow with little advance notice. So, I have to choose what extra set of tires to bring with me to the track...another set of RR's or a set of RA1's (in case it does rain). Actually, now that I think of it to have that option I need 3 sets of tires and wheels, one is on the car, another is a set of rains and the third is a backup set of RR's. Say I bring the RA1's but it doesnt rain and I flat spot an RR or have an incident that damages the tire. Now I'm obligated to run the slower (for dry surfaces) RA1's. Say I bring another set of RR's and it does rain, I'm hosed their too. Bottom line, we have 2 different tires to deal with and decisions to make before leaving for the track. Before, it was one tire, no problem. Just thinking about those of us with limited resources/money/etc who cant carry a few extra sets of tires and wheels to an event every weekend and are limited to transporting one set. Just some things that came to mind and I thought I'd share. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 I guess my question and/or concern (maybe others too) is that if they become required I can only carry another full set of tires/wheels in the back of my truck. Will they be RA1's or will they be RR's? Like Texas our races are usually dry, however we all know that it can rain and in some instances (like Rocky Mountain region) snow with little advance notice. So, I have to choose what extra set of tires to bring with me to the track...another set of RR's or a set of RA1's (in case it does rain). Actually, now that I think of it to have that option I need 3 sets of tires and wheels, one is on the car, another is a set of rains and the third is a backup set of RR's. Say I bring the RA1's but it doesnt rain and I flat spot an RR or have an incident that damages the tire. Now I'm obligated to run the slower (for dry surfaces) RA1's. Say I bring another set of RR's and it does rain, I'm hosed their too. Bottom line, we have 2 different tires to deal with and decisions to make before leaving for the track. Before, it was one tire, no problem. Just thinking about those of us with limited resources/money/etc who cant carry a few extra sets of tires and wheels to an event every weekend and are limited to transporting one set. Just some things that came to mind and I thought I'd share. I have carried a set of dedicated rains (full tread RA1's) w/ me since I started in 2005. I'm not sure that a lack of space on your part is a problem on the part of the series. It is no different than what spares you carry. Carry none, and a mechanical can sideline you. Since RA1's look to be slower, I'm sure your fellow racers would have no problem w/ you running them. W/ the R888's being required a few years back and since they were slower, the series had to set a drop dead date for changeover to not allow an advantage w/ the tires. W/ your issue, that problem has been there all along. You didn't carry 3 sets before cause you didn't feel the need for a dedicated set of rains. Why feel required to now? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Scott - what you decide to bring to the track will dictate how you can continue to race in the event of adversity - be that mechanical or weather. It's the reason why I have always carried allot of spares - that include rims/tires. When in TX, I carried a full set of rains, the full shaved on the car, and 2 or 3 additional tires in the event I damaged one. In some cases, I didn't always have a decent shaved spares, for any number of reasons, so I'd be forced to use my full treads. At the beginning of last year, I went to SPIR without rains, as I didn't have enough $$ to buy another set, so I went with one brand new set of shaved RA1's, and a few used spares. It poured all weekend. It didn't just rain, it f'n poured, every damn session we were out. I did the best I could given the equipment I had with me. It cost me a driver side front fender, and a destroyed nose. It's the nature of racing. Managing within one's budget and space considerations is a challenge for ALL racers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted September 9, 2012 Share Posted September 9, 2012 Scott - You mean Dave. BADVENM is Dave MHISSTC is Scott Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 So will we know if we can run on the RRs before next season? I'm so sick of shaving ra1s and the tire itself for that matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 So will we know if we can run on the RRs before next season? I'm so sick of shaving ra1s and the tire itself for that matter. They don't even make a size that fits our wheels yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 So will we know if we can run on the RRs before next season? I'm so sick of shaving ra1s and the tire itself for that matter. But if you want a rain tire, you'll still have to have a set of RA1s. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsmith350 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 It sounds like they made a good attempt at researching and testing to our needs. The only thing they haven't given us is the answer to the obvious question of our group.....when and details on the RA 1's future. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suck fumes1548534743 Posted September 10, 2012 Share Posted September 10, 2012 Looking at the tire and feeling it at the nationals, it looks and feels identical to the bfgoodrich R1. Little harder than Hoosiers. The Miata tire is going for $162. Very similar to the SM6 tire. I would assume our size would be closer to $200 ea. And usually with these kind of tires you'll need a new set every weekend to be at your peak. Yah I'm sure they'll last a long time but I'm willing to bet they are very sensitive to heat cycle and will drop off after the 5th heat cycle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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