soundguydave1548534741 Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 Bluebandit: Okay, yes, you got me... The S197 chassis DOES come with a modified MacPhereson strut front end, which by definition, has the spring placed around the strut body itself, so in a way, IS a coil-over. Adjustable perch? Not hardly. So, the S197 was allowed to use a threaded spring perch. Why? Lack of "reasonable" OE spring rates? Screw that! BUILD SOMETHING!!! ADAPT SOMETHING!!! Nope, the Global West and Ground Control sleeve kits are called out specifically in the rule set. And yes, my car DID win the championships with Anders driving... He crossed the line third, and inherited the position due to multiple DQ's, but take nothing away from him, he is one HELL of a driver! I just can't handle as loose a car as he likes, and my co-driver (co-owner as well) likes them even less loose than me... Glenn: Did ALL of the 4th-gen F-Bodies come with threaded spring perches, or was it only a select handful of special-option cars? Unless it was "all," the mechanism already exists to restrict them to the stock (common) spring seat design, just as the "must convert to manual transmission" line precludes automatics. So what if the 5" springs won't fit? The rules don't restrict you to 5" springs, at all. Use whatever size you want, BUT USE THE STOCK, NON-ADJUSTABLE PERCHES. After all, that's the message you're sending to the FOX/SN95 crew: USE AN ADAPTER or FABRICATE SOMETHING. If all the 4th Gen chassis came with threaded adjusters from the factory, I apologize for my error, but if they all did, why does Global West and Ground Control make sleeves for them??? Again, show me how the raw location of the spring (even with an altered motion ratio) will impact lap times. Just locating the spring around the strut will NOT affect raw lap times, it simply makes spring selection cheaper and easier. Roadracerwhite: No, you're probably not missing anything, and I sincerely appreciate the link to those adjusters. I'll most likely wind up installing those after the RCR gets shot down. However, my point still stands: The guys that are fully developed don't need adjustable sleeve kits, but the guys that aren't fully developed will benefit financially from having it, as will those looking at putting one of these cars into CMC duty. The springs are STILL cheaper than the 5.5" (and 5" as well), and are still available in more free lengths and rates. Yes, we are a "stock, cost-contained" series, but we're still racing, and personally, I consider access to things like threaded adjusters part-and-parcel to a race car, no different than the ability to delete emissions-control devices. And, no, I do NOT want an "AI Lite" builder's class philosophy. ALL of the RCRs that I've supported have had long-term cost savings at their core. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastntim Posted November 1, 2012 Share Posted November 1, 2012 And your opinions have been heard, and the reasons for "why not" have been given. But that doesn't stop the endless "why not" from you and others. All I have told you is the reasons why rules are the way they are. I haven't once told you that your ideas don't have merrit. You can be right, and that doesn't mean the CMC rules will change. It also doesn't mean the CMC Directors are wrong for not changing them. Surely you understand that, right? No answer ever seems to be good enough. You have constantly pointed out where CMC is "unfair". To me, that endless list of minor tweaks is telling me the siries is broke. All platforms have pro's and con's. It is part of CMC. Don't look at CMC as a list of technical data points and find where this doesn't measure up w/ that, but rather a list of platforms where things are so different yet the results are so close and evenly matched. I'm one of 12. If 7 (or more) vote a certain way, things will change. I find myself onthe sideof the majority most of the time. I must have a fairly accurate feel for what CMC is about. I have to quit this back and forth w/ you. Find another Director to do this with. You and I will just not agree at any point. But there is hope. You have 11 other Directors who may side w/ you and your POV. Good luck. Glenn, Based upon your statements it appears you think CMC is perfect. Then why even have rule changes? Lets just lock them up and throw away the key. Based upon your point of view the racers need to take the rules as is or leave the series. I don't think that is what you want and I don't think that will bode we'll for the series longevity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted November 2, 2012 Share Posted November 2, 2012 And your opinions have been heard, and the reasons for "why not" have been given. But that doesn't stop the endless "why not" from you and others. All I have told you is the reasons why rules are the way they are. I haven't once told you that your ideas don't have merrit. You can be right, and that doesn't mean the CMC rules will change. It also doesn't mean the CMC Directors are wrong for not changing them. Surely you understand that, right? No answer ever seems to be good enough. You have constantly pointed out where CMC is "unfair". To me, that endless list of minor tweaks is telling me the siries is broke. All platforms have pro's and con's. It is part of CMC. Don't look at CMC as a list of technical data points and find where this doesn't measure up w/ that, but rather a list of platforms where things are so different yet the results are so close and evenly matched. I'm one of 12. If 7 (or more) vote a certain way, things will change. I find myself onthe sideof the majority most of the time. I must have a fairly accurate feel for what CMC is about. I have to quit this back and forth w/ you. Find another Director to do this with. You and I will just not agree at any point. But there is hope. You have 11 other Directors who may side w/ you and your POV. Good luck. Glenn, Based upon your statements it appears you think CMC is perfect. Then why even have rule changes? Lets just lock them up and throw away the key. Based upon your point of view the racers need to take the rules as is or leave the series. I don't think that is what you want and I don't think that will bode we'll for the series longevity. And that assumption would be totally wrong. I have several issues w/ the rules as they are. I have submitted for changes just like everyone else can. In those cases I do not vote on the RCR I submit. I also do not think my POV is the correct one or most popular one. I realize it is my opinion and nothing more. I also think that the current ruleset is good enough to stay and race in CMC even if my proposed changes are not voted in. I also don't (since 2005) create threads about why rule X is stupid or unfair. The reason we have rules changes is to allow Ford swaybars from platforms that are not CMC legal for Fox's to correct for the increase in track that causes OEM bars to not fit. We fix alot of rules, and none of them are fixed because rule X was passed so we may as well allow rule Y and Z. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrC Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I have set here and read 9 pages of post after post and one thing is clear, no matter what is decided here I need to looks long and hard at what it is going to take to legally get my car to a point where it has good equal corner weight. What is in the rules will determine how I legally reach that objective and how easy or hard that path will be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wastntim Posted November 3, 2012 Share Posted November 3, 2012 I have set here and read 9 pages of post after post and one thing is clear, no matter what is decided here I need to looks long and hard at what it is going to take to legally get my car to a point where it has good equal corner weight. What is in the rules will determine how I legally reach that objective and how easy or hard that path will be. Dan, It is something you have to get done, no matter if it is with some simple perches or if you need to cut ten different spacers. You won't believe the difference, especially if it is off as much as mine was. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted November 11, 2012 Author Share Posted November 11, 2012 Inter-web to the rescue. Searching ebay for stock parts and I stumbled upon this little gem. Our troubles are over...... and all this for the same price as adjustable screw type spring pearches, except you need to buy several of them. Plus all the inconvenience of still having to remove the spring and swap the right one in, per the rules Shame on some of you naysayers, there are solutions out there that are equally difficult to cobbling something together, you just need to look (sarcasm intended) Just buy these in several different heights and you're good to go? Hows that for keeping the cost down...no rules creep here, and just the way the rules intented, it doesn't make adjusting ride height any easier, so it should be legal http://www.mcbayperformance.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=MP1627-MP1630-C Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 I have a set of adjustable rear lower control arms that I just removed from my car in order to be CMC legal. I already put them up for sale, but now think I should hold on to them until hearing more about this. Any idea when the ruling will be out? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluebandit48 Posted November 21, 2012 Share Posted November 21, 2012 you can still use them. like the rules say. you have to remove the spring and make it a pain in the ass to adjust. so figure out away to lock them in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted November 22, 2012 Share Posted November 22, 2012 I have a set of adjustable rear lower control arms that I just removed from my car in order to be CMC legal. I already put them up for sale, but now think I should hold on to them until hearing more about this. Any idea when the ruling will be out? Set them to stock length ... 19 1/2" IIRC ... then "fix" the jam nut so that they are no longer adjustable. Bushing material is open per the rules and in order to utilize a spherical bearing in a control arm, the ONLY way is through a threaded bearing housing. So weld it, stake it, glue it ... just make it stock length and lock it in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spencer Posted November 23, 2012 Share Posted November 23, 2012 Well I bought a set of used non adjustable arms and swapped them out with the adjustables already. The only reason I would hold on to the adjustables is if this rule went through. Just wondering how long I will have to wait for a ruling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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