hagakure Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 everybody seems to have ignored my input..having driven a TTa evo for the past two seasons, I can say, the penalty is NOT excessive. I'm a convert to this opinion after going to FWD. AWD cars are much much easier to drive for the average to good driver for a plethora of reasons...Fact. So is there no one in the ranks that thinks the AWD penalty is a bit excessive, or is it only the people that drive them? When are the rules going to be finalized? Have the discussions already began with the big wigs in NASA? If so, can we be notified of the hot topics, or is this our only chance to speak? Sorry, lotta questions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthTT Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 everybody seems to have ignored my input..having driven a TTa evo for the past two seasons, I can say, the penalty is NOT excessive. I'm a convert to this opinion after going to FWD. AWD cars are much much easier to drive for the average to good driver for a plethora of reasons...Fact. Speaking of ignoring input..... AWD with 4-doors = 0.5 - 0.4 = 0.1 penalty AWD with 2-doors = 0.5 penalty 0.1 is not equal to 0.5 I don't understand what is so hard to understand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1LapSRT Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Also not too hard to understand. Sorry I couldn't find a white TT. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthTT Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 Also not too hard to understand. Sorry I couldn't find a white TT. Here's my car at Road America: What you can't see is the hurricane force winds ripping in threw the side windows since they are twice as large as a 4-door sedan. The larger size of the side windows reduce the aero advantage when the windows are up. p.s. I'm just having fun now. Greg has made up his mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
loudes13 Posted November 2, 2007 Share Posted November 2, 2007 And with only 7 days of NASA-SE TTS this year, 4 wins and third in regional points ain't too shabby! Proof that the turbo rocket neon needs to be slowed down for '08! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thebionicman Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Seeing that everyone goes back to Greg's car. I am not sure what my stance on this should be. I took 3rd in a 2001 BMW M Coupe. I was maxed out on points running a full interior. The Boxter and I had a great time going back and forth on times. We both know that there was more time on the track to be found. Could we have gotten to Greg's times, maybe. That being all said its going to be hard to get the base classes all equal for all cars. Gregs HP to weight is much better than my car, I just learn to live with it. As for the OP, Rich just detune your car for TTA if you are so concerned about winning. Maybe the detuned car will finish a weekend Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Percy I don't think its been ignored , People just want to hagel till the cows come home I ran TTB NorCal all year. The class was lead all year by an Evo only being defeated by a BMW and myself by not showing up . It took all year for the Bimmer to real him in at the last two events . Granted my car still has room to grow so I'm not complaning. If I stay in class I'll get him next year . Stealth- I run a none turbo 2 door , can I have some points back for the big windows Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1LapSRT Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 And with only 7 days of NASA-SE TTS this year, 4 wins and third in regional points ain't too shabby! Proof that the turbo rocket neon needs to be slowed down for '08! There is no stopping the Quagernaut. Of course I have about 150+ whp over a stock SRT-4 so , TTE is not even a distant memory.... LOL I am more than happy in TTS, and I am sitting well off the "max" for the class. Guess it's time for some more "free" mods! Thanks goodness for CFD programs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1LapSRT Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Here's my car at Road America: What you can't see is the hurricane force winds ripping in threw the side windows since they are twice as large as a 4-door sedan. The larger size of the side windows reduce the aero advantage when the windows are up. p.s. I'm just having fun now. Greg has made up his mind. Wow.... I guess I can't argue with anyone who has a car like that! OK...Yes I can.... You run with the windows up? Who lets you do that? If you were to run with the windows down (like the rest of us), you could just open your rear hatch (or remove it completely...). I think the front plate is messing up your aero more than the side windows! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavychevy Posted November 3, 2007 Author Share Posted November 3, 2007 everybody seems to have ignored my input..having driven a TTa evo for the past two seasons, I can say, the penalty is NOT excessive. I'm a convert to this opinion after going to FWD. AWD cars are much much easier to drive for the average to good driver for a plethora of reasons...Fact. What is said plethora? Generalized statements with nothing to back them up do sometimes get pushed aside. Yet you call it fact. How many events did you win in the Evo vs the FWD car? I took the AWD out of my car for a Road Atlanta track day with Panoz about may and ran 1:36 with PSM on (if you know PSM, you know what that means), and no LSD. My fastest time since has been 1:35 back to AWD (PSM off) and I'm driving better and only had that one day with the RWD. I think I have legit reasons for thinking .5 is not accurate whatsoever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 HeavyChevy I think Hagakure was the NorCal TTA class leader untill a machanical misshap sidelined his compeating about midseason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broeli Posted November 3, 2007 Share Posted November 3, 2007 Why even look at what one Evo did in the NorCal region? Look at what they did at Nationals where all the best cars were. The Z06's dominated them. So much for so called awd advantage they have. The rwd cars were much more dominant. It took an awd with TTU power running in TTS to beat the Vettes before being disqualified Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I can't say much about the Nationals but I dought all the best drivers and cars attend the Nationals I can say that another Evo dominated my class this year . And I have been for a ride in it. I don't think baseing car classes on the Nationals will happen though . Most of the Vetts here run TTU . And the DQed car dosen't count. It was DQed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 I seem to remember hearing the TTA/TTS (cannot remember which) EVO lost its engine at nationals this year - as did at least 1 TTS Corvette.... An EVO did well in TTU last year at nationals... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowoldpoop Posted November 4, 2007 Share Posted November 4, 2007 An EVO did well in TTU last year at nationals... That was the formidable AMS Evo out of Chicago, arguably the fasted Evo in the world. Alas, AMS no longer runs NASA events. They are doing the Time Attack series instead. AMS did come out to Autobahn for a NASA event once this year that I know of, ran one or two sessions in TTR, and set FTD, beating everyone by about 4-5 seconds!!! The buzz around the paddock that day was, "The Evo turned a WHAT?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthTT Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Wow.... I guess I can't argue with anyone who has a car like that! OK...Yes I can.... You run with the windows up? Who lets you do that? If you were to run with the windows down (like the rest of us), you could just open your rear hatch (or remove it completely...). I think the front plate is messing up your aero more than the side windows! Okay I worded that a little poorly. I have never run windows up at an event. Oh and the pic has been photoshopped. The car is red not pink. There is no big wing. The CCW's and body roll are real though. The front plate is unfortunately real too. Several states in the MidWest require it so the police have a good target for their radar/laser. I forgot to take it off before this pic was taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthTT Posted November 5, 2007 Share Posted November 5, 2007 Stealth- I run a none turbo 2 door , can I have some points back for the big windows I contend that the 4-door reward is too high (and the AWD penalty is too). So, no, you wouldn't get points back. But you're adversaries with 4-doors would have a higher weight to power ratio limit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hagakure Posted November 6, 2007 Share Posted November 6, 2007 HeavyChevy I think Hagakure was the NorCal TTA class leader untill a machanical misshap sidelined his compeating about midseason I was not the class leader, was stuck behind...you guessed it, another Evo. 3 wins in the past two seasons, many many seconds. To the guy that objected to my less than fact based assertions... you are probably right, more data would be needed. but I stand by my anecdotal assertion that... the Evo is a relatively easy car to drive quickly. A ton of grip, fairly forgiving if you are not stupid jumping out of the throttle, and responds well to driver inputs...having grip everywhere is OBVIOUSLY an advantage, and it's been debated ad nauseum in a lot of places. these are my last words on the topic. I'm going to concentrate on driving the CRX very quickly. it's capable, I'm the missing link, and look at is as a challnege, and a way of finding out if I can drive worth a damn or not! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthTT Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 So they removed the AWD weight penalty in the 2008 GTS rules: http://www.gtschallenge.com/rules.htm http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=18894&sid=41c851dcd449cb1d66d41de6e2287055 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 TT/PT =/= GTS so I wouldn't read too much into that, but we'll see what happens... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1LapSRT Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 So they removed the AWD weight penalty in the 2008 GTS rules: http://www.gtschallenge.com/rules.htm http://www.nasaforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=18894&sid=41c851dcd449cb1d66d41de6e2287055 But your car isn't german.... nice try! The wording says they eliminated the weight penalty associated with the AWD. How does that correspond to the point penalty in TT? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 there is no point penalty in A-H so to speak, its taken care of in base classing.... but in S and U there is a correction factor in your power:weight Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slowoldpoop Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 TT/PT =/= GTS so I wouldn't read too much into that, but we'll see what happens... To me, it means the rules aren't set in stone, so there is hope that they will adjust the AWD penalty in TT and PT. At the very least, they should take away the four-door credit that makes me compete against Evos and STIs with 55 more hp. At best, maybe they will realize that AWD is no real advantage over a Z06 suspension and take the penalty away completely. I haven't sold my Eclipse yet, so such a rule change would keep me around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1LapSRT Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 there is no point penalty in A-H so to speak, its taken care of in base classing.... but in S and U there is a correction factor in your power:weight That I know! But does the "correction" factor in TTS & TTU equal the weight penalty that was previously given in GTS? In other words, if GTS added 200 pounds (Im guessing) to the car, it that the same amount of penalty that is applied via the "correction"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 15, 2007 Share Posted November 15, 2007 aren't you the guy that probably has a TTA car if you'd total up your points to be sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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