2009 Rules

[ST#97]

Don't even start talking equal when it means taking something away from a non-dominant platform. Where's my fab shop that I can call for fabricated parts and setup tips? Our only option from stock A-arms is drag race A-arms and there isn't enough room to run coilovers even if we did have some decent ones. If you want to limit my car running GM stamped steel A-arms and 5.5" diameter front springs, I'm going to tell you I need all the track width I can get!

 

Sure, take away my track width. I'm sure my CMC legal suspension will continue to be competitive...

 

All I ask for is that if you get a half inch, that a half inch be added to every platform in the rule.

 

Sounds like a business opportunity...or is it that F-bodies are predominantly owned by Mullett wearing rednecks who only drag race...? Hell, after seeing Tommy's performance at nationals, I am thinking F-body for AI in the future. Considering all the dirt-track parts that are out there in the Smiley's catalog, you should have ZERO problems fabbing up a chevy control arm if not buy one out of the catalog. Also, what's so wrong about 5.5" springs...I think smiley's has them for $35/ea in just about every increment you want.

 

Step outside the box and see the light! There is a world of parts for the F-bodies. Heck, I would love to have Scranton's car from RMR!!!! That sucker is NICE!!!

[King Matt]

Speaking of the GM cars, Dave Shotz did pretty well with a CMC-2 car this year. It certainly appears from the outside that the 4th Gen LSx platform has considerable untapped potential in AI.

[firehawkclone]

I'm all for leaving the mustang rule set in place!

 

Purposed built ford motors and all stock GM motors

 

Except for.....

 

Stock blocks

 

GM in a GM, Ford in a Ford in AI!

 

Track increase for ALL!

 

Stock body parts.

 

Min wt 3200lbs w/o driver

[nape]

Sounds like a business opportunity...or is it that F-bodies are predominantly owned by Mullett wearing rednecks who only drag race...? Hell, after seeing Tommy's performance at nationals, I am thinking F-body for AI in the future. Considering all the dirt-track parts that are out there in the Smiley's catalog, you should have ZERO problems fabbing up a chevy control arm if not buy one out of the catalog. Also, what's so wrong about 5.5" springs...I think smiley's has them for $35/ea in just about every increment you want.

 

Step outside the box and see the light! There is a world of parts for the F-bodies. Heck, I would love to have Scranton's car from RMR!!!! That sucker is NICE!!!

 

It's probably both, but hell if I have the time to try to race one and build parts out of a 2-car garage. I'm not familiar with Smiley's (just ordered a catalog though ) but usually dirt track parts are for the 70-81 chassis (2nd gens).

 

5.5" springs work, but hold a 5.5'" x 8.5" spring with a GC weight jack in one hand and a 2.5" x 8" spring and CO sleeve in the other and tell me which one you'd rather have two of that far forward and as unsprung weight

 

I've seen the light, but I never let any of the moths in my wallet see it.

[Mystic_Cobra]

Rules will be out 10/31/09 with a preview a little before if we can swing it.

 

As to the question about tech at the Nats, there was no need to tear down the boxes as it was easy to tell that the cars we had on the podium still had synchros in place. We had three NASCAR-level techs look over the podium cars and they said there would be no point in tearing down the boxes other than proving a point...and the point didn't need to proved as it would have just been painful for all involved with little benefit. As for anything else that needed to be checked (track, wings, weights, etc.), it was checked and I'm confident that our top three were legit.

 

So, the rules seem to work fine, but we can perhaps find some easier enforcement methods and work on more checks at the regional level. From following the discussions here, it appears to be a bad idea to change anything that will cost folks more money or change the level of car prep required so I think the directors are hesitant to do much. CMC is around for folks who want to run with less mods and AIX is here for mondo stuff that does push the edge with AI as a happy medium. As has been pointed out, spec tires with a limited section width, fixed power-to-weight, and other limits have defined a pretty stable platform for AI where you can spend a ton but not go much faster than the lower budget guys.

 

To end, the directors are discussing a few things, but don't plan on seeing much change this year as we're pretty happy with the series and the parity we saw this year at the Nats. Hopefully all of you are too...

 

-JWL

 

I'm assuming you meant, "Rules will be out 10/31/08 with a preview a little before if we can swing it."

[JWL]

Good grief. 10/31/08 is correct. Time to brew another pot of java...

 

-JWL

[b_tone]

So when can we expect that preview seeing as it's 10/22/08 today?

 

[JWL]

So when can we expect that preview seeing as it's 10/22/08 today?

 

When you guys get done thumping on the aero issues!

 

Just kidding, I have a draft going to the directors later today and then I should be able to post a quick summary of changes the middle of next week.

 

-JWL

[jeffburch]

This is another catalog http://www.daymotorsports.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Great folks to deal with.

 

jb

[Pat L.]

How's it going, John????

[JWL]

How's it going, John????

 

Quite well, cousin, quite well. Just popped a Silver Bullet in celebration of a workday nearly completed.

 

Just to give you all the promised pre-run of what is baked in prior to release, the changes as of now are:

 

> R888 is required tire in AI.

> Everyone in AI gets 1/4 inch bump in track.

> Simple underbody aero rule will apply in both classes. Meat of the sandwich is nothing is allowed inside the inside edge of the tires or between the front and rear axle centerlines with a limit of how far off the back a diffuser can hang.

> Clarification on running forced induction piping through the firewall on blown AIX cars.

> The Dave Algozine Fender Rule on what you can and can't do to a front fender on an AI car.

 

That's pretty much it and we'll be looking at splitters and front end components during the 2009 season to see if some limits are needed there. The sheer amazing volume of aftermarket nose options and combinations prevented us from doing any meaningful measurement and none of us wanted to impose a rule that would cost folks bucks and create more static.

 

So, comment away on the above and many thanks for all the comments here and to me in person as they have been particularly helpful and insightful.

 

Carry on and look for your trick or treat on 10/31 as promised.

 

-JWL

[Mystic_Cobra]

Just for clarification assuming you're still working on the exact language...

 

nothing is allowed inside the inside edge of the tires or between the front and rear axle centerlines

 

Does this mean that nothing is allowed inside the inside of edge of the tires IF it's in between the front and rear centerlines? The way its worded here it sounds like a front splitter belly pan might not be allowed at all depending on interpretation.

 

Just trying to make sure we get it right the first time.

[swhiteh3]

I interpret John's words to mean "no underbody aero devices inside of a rectangle which is laterally defined by the inside edge of the tires, and longitudinally defined by the tire centerlines". Is that correct John?

 

Should I interpret this to mean that splitter, diffusers, and side skirts which do not violate this rectangle can hit the ground with the car at rest? And they can be mounted such as to "flex" so they constantly hit the ground? Also, I assume I can still install "skid plates" on the underbody to protect things like brake lines, fuel lines, and other sensitive components under the car? I'd like to get these questions answered ASAP so I can start planning for next year....

[Red Tornado]

Sounds good to me John.

I assume the 1/4 inch is the difference in the RA1's vs R888's on 9.5 inch rims?

 

Was curious what someone really verified that to be.

[horsewidower]

Please explain the "Dave Algozine Fender Rule." My front fenders are open at the rear, the Tiger Racing fenders have openings at the rear. Please provide clarification.

 

Bob

[bdkline]

Clarification on running forced induction piping through the firewall on blown AIX cars.

 

And I still can not run AIX with my s197 because the wiper bucket is missing?

 

Barry

[D Algozine]

Clarification on running forced induction piping through the firewall on blown AIX cars.

 

And I still can not run AIX with my s197 because the wiper bucket is missing?

 

Barry

 

I don't know your exact situation, but during the intial build of Matt Ericksons S197 the wiper pucket was removed. In order to comply, he simply made a fiberglass replica of the stock bucket and installed it in the stock location. JWL deemed it legal.

[D Algozine]

JWL, thanks for the update.

[JWL]

Guys-

 

> Fender rules are nothing shocking. Nobody ain't going to have to fix nothing.

> Scott's rectangle is correct. Need to think on skirts hitting the ground before ruling there. Don't get too clever with "skid plates" that look like a flat bottom.

> R888 was a best guess based on observation with a little room given for when we start seeing them on cars as built and not sitting around. If this isn't enough, we can always adjust with a tech bulletin.

> Still no joy without the wiper bucket. As stated above, there are simple solutions to the problem.

 

-JWL

[swhiteh3]

> Scott's rectangle is correct. Need to think on skirts hitting the ground before ruling there. Don't get too clever with "skid plates" that look like a flat bottom.

John-

 

As you can probably guess, my point about skid plates was just an example. Phrasing like "aero devices" is going to open a large can of worms because it requires such interpretation.

[horsewidower]

, so a jacking plate that extends the length of my subframe connector and from it to the pinch weld would not be viewed in a favorable light.

[JWL]

, so a jacking plate that extends the length of my subframe connector and from it to the pinch weld would not be viewed in a favorable light.

 

Not so much...

 

-JWL

[bdkline]

Still no joy without the wiper bucket. As stated above, there are simple solutions to the problem.

I don't know your exact situation, but during the intial build of Matt Ericksons S197 the wiper pucket was removed. In order to comply, he simply made a fiberglass replica of the stock bucket and installed it in the stock location. JWL deemed it legal.

 

I believe that my car was completed before Matts. I have the fiberglass piece sitting in the corner of the shop. I'm not inclined to install it as the piece will have to be cut to clear the rear motor plate and will look stupid as hell and make a mockery of the excellent fabrication work that was done(I take no credit for that work). The stupid wiper bucket is not part of the firewall and I will not change my mind about that. So the car can just sit unused as it has for the last 2 seasons.

 

Barry

[Sidney]

Hey Barry,

 

How about loaning me the unused Mustang, I'll fab up a cool looking cardboard wiper bucket, and race the thing cause I won't care what it looks like.

 

Seriously...get the bucket fabbed back in and bring it back out. We need more cars in our Enduros!

[bdkline]

I don't need to be AIX legal to run the enduros (when they are run) as the car could run in the the open class(ES?). We are looking at a larger cell and dry break pieces to do that and really there is more we could do to modify the car to be more competetive with the GT1 cars at other venues. But first I need to stop having so much fun going in circles in the dirt.

 

Barry