April Rules Addendum

[chad]

my k24/20 build....244 hp 189 tq....full pnp head and fresh valve job....

 

had the rules committee not changed the head porting K series i would have been racing for the last year and a half....

 

so that is 6 races at 300 a race....nasa has missed out on my 1800 bucks...ohh well....puts money in my pocket....i just go out in instructor sessions and roll alot of cars!

 

not the same as having a battle for position and having to use you mind to win...there is no win in HPDE except i drive it home...

 

that said my engine makes just a tad more hp than Helms b2ovtec on the same dyno....and i'm 150 lbs more than him...

 

my engine is built to the limit with head work....it isn't going to make anymore power except with some VP gas...

 

oh well....

 

i have a JDM b20 with the PR8 Head if anyone is interested....made 138 and 138 in stock form with a pos ebay header....

 

chad

[slammed_93_hatch]

 

Let me say this though,RC should make an exception for your beast.How about only you get to run the K20 head...just like you get to run Blox cams and I don't... how's that for fair.

 

 

Are you fucking kidding me?? You are really going to throw out some shit like that???

 

WOW

Edited May 3, 2010 by Guest

[ITAIntegraLS]

Same is about to happen with me. Looks like i will be saving some money.

 

Edo

 

so that is 6 races at 300 a race....nasa has missed out on my 1800 bucks...ohh well....puts money in my pocket....i just go out in instructor sessions and roll alot of cars!

 

oh well....

 

chad

[mikeski38]

Same is about to happen with me. Looks like i will be saving some money.

 

Edo

 

so that is 6 races at 300 a race....nasa has missed out on my 1800 bucks...ohh well....puts money in my pocket....i just go out in instructor sessions and roll alot of cars!

 

oh well....

 

chad

 

Although I disagree with the RC, and how they conduct their affairs, this is nothing new. It is odd that we get suprised every time the majority of the racers disagree with a new rule, and we are told to get over it or get on with it. My suggestion, stop putting so much money into your motors. There is not an H2 motor you cannot buy for less then $1000. Buy it, run it, and if the RC pulls more of this stuff, which they will, then the most it will cost you is a grand.

[jmeris]

my k24/20 build....244 hp 189 tq....full pnp head and fresh valve job....

 

had the rules committee not changed the head porting K series i would have been racing for the last year and a half....

 

so that is 6 races at 300 a race....nasa has missed out on my 1800 bucks...ohh well....puts money in my pocket....i just go out in instructor sessions and roll alot of cars!

 

 

my engine is built to the limit with head work....it isn't going to make anymore power except with some VP gas...

 

oh well....

 

chad

 

Aww, Cmon Chad-just put a stock K24a2 head on there and race in HC again. You can sell your RLZ head for a pretty penny and use that money to buy a stock head AND race!!!

I know you miss the competition

 

It'd be nice to see you in Utah this Sept!!!

[B.KRAUS]

Man there is alot of talk here.Bring out what ever you have and come run.I really dont care what you have or what you build,put it on the track and run it.I hope Blacktrax finds my axle problem so i can run Nationals.If not im going to buy a spec.miata.LOL.Just come out and run.Some of the h2 guys are running 201xx at t-hill.Thats not all car you have to drive the ---- out of it to get it going that fast.I ran a 159xx and i know we will get down to low 158xx.That is a h1 car 100 percent legal.Bring out your cars and just run i really dont care how fast your motor is or how many adj of shock settings you have,track time is very important.If your so far out front and you think the guys are cheatting,then talk to them or protest them.Ive been protested back in the day and i lost because i had a 951 head on myPorsche 944 ITS car.I lost out on 2,400$Little did i know i had this.I put on a stock head and went faster and had 5 more HP out of the motor on the dyno.Lets go race everyone and have a good time.Just my .02$.

[hybridmoments]

When i started building my H2 car over this past winter, i expressly took the "b20" base engine code, to mean that b20's were looked at as identical and you could mix and match all parts.

HC always seemed like a builder/racer series. the people involved largely were into hondas and enjoyed building them. were aware of the parts availability and low pricing, and vast cross usage of parts across cars. Not just people that looked for the 'best car' to win a series and go out and buy prebuilt cars.

 

i really liked the idea of H2. not because i thought of it as "fast" but because it fit in with the way i wanted to build my car (92 civic 4 door)

Little things that i felt like i wanted, but were not necessarily huge cost items. (99 civic si brake swap) (engine swaps and mild engine work on the 'lower cost' honda engines) (lexan windows)

i mean there really is not much extra cost building some forms of H2 car over a competitive H4 car. i did lexan windows in my car myself ,under $200. brake swap total was $300 (added more weight over stock rear drums)

purchase phk pistons and P8r head for another $400.

 

i think the non vtec b's should be able to swap in any oem parts. the engines are so cheap, it's not really any kind of limiting factor for people in my eyes.

then just equalize things out by weight. a small weight disadvantage for running p8r head, etc

List the maximum compression ratio for an engine and head combo? then any pistons from that base model engine could be used (b18x, b20x)

 

then you have cam allowances and intake manifolds. i'm fine with that too. $300 for cams, + valve springs, retainers. not a huge cost.

 

Then for H2 there is a 7" wheel width limit! kinda weird in my opinion.

I am not sure if it's an issue with HC, but to cut costs further you could always institute a wheel weight rule for H2-H5 so people would not be spending $2000 for Volks to drop 2 or 3 lbs per wheel.

a 15x7 vs 15x7.5 or 15x8 is no longer a cost issue anymore these days with the wide variety of wheels our there.

 

ideally i want a relatively quick, fun car, that i built myself, that doesn't cost me a boat load to maintain or fix. to me that is really what made me gravitate to H2.

 

it allows you to race what ya got (chassis wise). which to me having a 4 door civic LX 1.5l, i would have had to go out and buy the 'competitive chassis'. that just makes the cost quite a bit more for something like H4 class. since a 92 civic si, or crx si, etc, costs quite a bit more then a 92 lx, crx dx, etc. not to mention hard to find.

[ITAIntegraLS]

NASA says if you dont like our rules go else where. Take your money and go race with someone else.

 

Ecdo

 

When i started building my H2 car over this past winter, i expressly took the "b20" base engine code, to mean that b20's were looked at as identical and you could mix and match all parts.

HC always seemed like a builder/racer series. the people involved largely were into hondas and enjoyed building them. were aware of the parts availability and low pricing, and vast cross usage of parts across cars. Not just people that looked for the 'best car' to win a series and go out and buy prebuilt cars.

 

i really liked the idea of H2. not because i thought of it as "fast" but because it fit in with the way i wanted to build my car (92 civic 4 door)

Little things that i felt like i wanted, but were not necessarily huge cost items. (99 civic si brake swap) (engine swaps and mild engine work on the 'lower cost' honda engines) (lexan windows)

i mean there really is not much extra cost building some forms of H2 car over a competitive H4 car. i did lexan windows in my car myself ,under $200. brake swap total was $300 (added more weight over stock rear drums)

purchase phk pistons and P8r head for another $400.

 

i think the non vtec b's should be able to swap in any oem parts. the engines are so cheap, it's not really any kind of limiting factor for people in my eyes.

then just equalize things out by weight. a small weight disadvantage for running p8r head, etc

List the maximum compression ratio for an engine and head combo? then any pistons from that base model engine could be used (b18x, b20x)

 

then you have cam allowances and intake manifolds. i'm fine with that too. $300 for cams, + valve springs, retainers. not a huge cost.

 

Then for H2 there is a 7" wheel width limit! kinda weird in my opinion.

I am not sure if it's an issue with HC, but to cut costs further you could always institute a wheel weight rule for H2-H5 so people would not be spending $2000 for Volks to drop 2 or 3 lbs per wheel.

a 15x7 vs 15x7.5 or 15x8 is no longer a cost issue anymore these days with the wide variety of wheels our there.

 

ideally i want a relatively quick, fun car, that i built myself, that doesn't cost me a boat load to maintain or fix. to me that is really what made me gravitate to H2.

 

it allows you to race what ya got (chassis wise). which to me having a 4 door civic LX 1.5l, i would have had to go out and buy the 'competitive chassis'. that just makes the cost quite a bit more for something like H4 class. since a 92 civic si, or crx si, etc, costs quite a bit more then a 92 lx, crx dx, etc. not to mention hard to find.

[hybridmoments]

just gonna have to resort to street racing!!

[slammed_93_hatch]

NASA says if you dont like our rules go else where. Take your money and go race with someone else.

 

Ecdo

 

 

LOL when the tables turned you where signing a different tone.

 

 

When many of us where upset about the cams going to the B20, you where fine because things worked in "your" favor.

 

Rules don't and shouldn't always please YOU (not you specifically but any 1 racer).

 

If you can't stand one rule change that doesn't go in your favor why are you even racing to begin with?

[ITAIntegraLS]

The new rule is not a performance equalizer or advantage. And for your information next race is my last with nasa.

Cuz i have a credit for 1 race. And then we will see what happens after that , as i have no money to replace my block.

 

 

Edo

 

NASA says if you dont like our rules go else where. Take your money and go race with someone else.

 

Edo

 

 

LOL when the tables turned you where signing a different tone.

 

 

When many of us where upset about the cams going to the B20, you where fine because things worked in "your" favor.

 

Rules don't and shouldn't always please YOU (not you specifically but any 1 racer).

 

If you can't stand one rule change that doesn't go in your favor why are you even racing to begin with?

[bernardo]

Edik

 

Your motor was illegal before the addendum end of Story quit blaming other people.

 

And if you really can't afford to build another motor you should ask your self if you should really be spending any money on racing at this time in your life.

 

Sometimes it's difficult to let go of the Dream.

 

b.

The new rule is not a performance equalizer or advantage. And for your information next race is my last with nasa.

Cuz i have a credit for 1 race. And then we will see what happens after that , as i have no money to replace my block.

 

 

Edo

 

NASA says if you dont like our rules go else where. Take your money and go race with someone else.

 

Edo

 

 

LOL when the tables turned you where signing a different tone.

 

 

When many of us where upset about the cams going to the B20, you where fine because things worked in "your" favor.

 

Rules don't and shouldn't always please YOU (not you specifically but any 1 racer).

 

If you can't stand one rule change that doesn't go in your favor why are you even racing to begin with?

[ITAIntegraLS]

Bernardo HC is not my dream its just another hole to dump money into to go fast.

 

Edo

 

 

 

Edik

 

Your motor was illegal before the addendum end of Story quit blaming other people.

 

And if you really can't afford to build another motor you should ask your self if you should really be spending any money on racing at this time in your life.

 

Sometimes it's difficult to let go of the Dream.

 

b.

 

[bernardo]

Who said H2 was Fast?

 

b.

 

 

Bernardo HC is not my dream its just another hole to dump money into to go fast.

 

Edo

[ITAIntegraLS]

Cmon U know what i mean, faster than i can go on the streets. I have my attention on something else at the moment.

 

Edo

 

Who said H2 was Fast?

 

b.

 

 

Bernardo HC is not my dream its just another hole to dump money into to go fast.

 

Edo

[bernardo]

Yes, it's always Greener on the other side.

 

b.

 

Cmon U know what i mean, faster than i can go on the streets. I have my attention on something else at the moment.

 

Edo

[Andrie]

I agree with the cost part Andrie,for sure that is a big deal.So is the performance of the K20 head,because I gained 13hp on the dyno just between a TSX head and my Type R head.This is using the 25* vtc.The potential for 260hp dynojet is there,I was not far away with a under built 24/20.The TSX head flows about 25-30cfm less than the PRB heads where we test down here. Look at the VT sheets from RTR on the RSX,why did they go to PRB heads on the TSX block? I rest my case.

Now if you look at the CRV head,it is very cheap(less than the Si) and easily found.Plus it flows the same as PRB and it blows the tsx flow away,that is why the drag community loves them.

 

Let me say this though,RC should make an exception for your beast.How about only you get to run the K20 head...just like you get to run Blox cams and I don't... how's that for fair.

 

I'm out of the country and have limited access to the Internet.

 

Take a closer look on RTR stuff again. They run all TSX head and engine package. You don't even need to see the part number. Just look at the intake manifold. They all run TSX intake manifold, unmodified! There is no way to bolt an unmodified TSX intake manifold onto PRB head. It has to be RBC (2006 Civic Si) or RBB (TSX) head. That being said, why look at Realtime? They have different rule set.

 

I know for sure the SCCA Pro VTS for RSX and TSX has identical engine program in the past. Cause I based my VTS request for my old civic from the RSX. I also work closely with SCCA pro with current TSX VTS for cars do not running xtrac box.

 

Like I said, you don't need the PRB head. In fact I don't want prb head since it is also costly. The one I want to be allowed is the RBC head which is comes with 2006 up civic. That's the cheap one.

 

How about you get to run 150 lbs less than I do? You think it is fair? I'll be glad to get to run 150 lbs less sans the bloxracing cams anyday. If you think otherwise, I have nothing more to say.

[jmeris]

Cuz i have a credit for 1 race. And then we will see what happens after that , as i have no money to replace my block.

Edo

 

Edo, I don't want you to leave HC...at least not this year. I wanna help you stay in H2 and I want to help you figure out how you can have a legal B20 engine without any worries. With that said I have this:

 

 

It's a JDM B20b shortblock that I was going to use a back up at last year's nationals but didn't need to build it. It's completely stock, haven't touched it. It's only been to the machine shop and was washed. Other than that-it was dissasembled. You can take your rods/phk pistons/p8r head/cams, etc and throw them in this block. Of course you'll have to at least hone or bore (if you have o/s pistons) the cylinders for your pistons...which is less than $100.

 

I will sell you this block for CHEAP to keep you in HC. WHY? because I want to race against you in H2 at nationals in Utah. I think you're fast and I never had the opportunity to race you in the same class in my HC career. I'd like to see how i'd fair against you

so pm me, and we can figure out how this block can reside in your DA.

 

jmeris

[Marcel D.]

Why don't we just follow the rules, stop trying to find every little loop hole in them trying to take advantage. When the rules catch up with you stop complaining because I know that if the rules don't touch you at that moment you are going to keep silent and won't jump until they do.

If you can't race, well you can't race, it happens on all levels of the sport. USF1 ran out of money and they are not racing, so I don't expect everybody to be able to.

Concentrate on your driving and get better at it and maybe you won't have to find that last hp on your engine to mask the lack of driving talent.

Please note that this is not directed to any particular driver just the one that feels that the jacket fits.

 

Rules are rules like it or not, just don't pay your taxes and you will find out really fast. We can all complaint about it but we still have to do it.

 

Like I said before, I'm here because I like having fun, I like driving fast and make friends in the process altough somebody will not like me right now. I know I'm not going to get rich, famous , so why spend money I don't have knowing the only thing I'm getting out of this is fun.

Please don't tell me that the thousands of dollars extra you are spending on your state of the art engine are justified by the little trophy you get at the end. And tell me how do you feel when the guy infront of you has a junkyard engine and he is ,well , running infront of you.

 

Leave the complaining and whining to politics , here we are all drivers, be drivers and let your driving talk for yourself. Let's go out there and have fun

[wic]

Why don't we just follow the rules, stop trying to find every little loop hole in them trying to take advantage. When the rules catch up with you stop complaining because I know that if the rules don't touch you at that moment you are going to keep silent and won't jump until they do.

If you can't race, well you can't race, it happens on all levels of the sport. USF1 ran out of money and they are not racing, so I don't expect everybody to be able to.

Concentrate on your driving and get better at it and maybe you won't have to find that last hp on your engine to mask the lack of driving talent.

Please note that this is not directed to any particular driver just the one that feels that the jacket fits.

 

Rules are rules like it or not, just don't pay your taxes and you will find out really fast. We can all complaint about it but we still have to do it.

 

Like I said before, I'm here because I like having fun, I like driving fast and make friends in the process altough somebody will not like me right now. I know I'm not going to get rich, famous , so why spend money I don't have knowing the only thing I'm getting out of this is fun.

Please don't tell me that the thousands of dollars extra you are spending on your state of the art engine are justified by the little trophy you get at the end. And tell me how do you feel when the guy infront of you has a junkyard engine and he is ,well , running infront of you.

 

Leave the complaining and whining to politics , here we are all drivers, be drivers and let your driving talk for yourself. Let's go out there and have fun

 

Well said!

[JW Racing]

That is a very kind gesture Meris. I like to see that.

 

 

I think each regional director needs to appoint a specialist for scrutineering.Somemone who knows Honda's well and what to look for,someone who can identify a GSR rod bearing on a B16 after quickly popping the oil pan and rod cap off the winning car.Someone who knows how to opearate the cam doctor and actually put effort to use it.Someone willing to require dyno sheets from each car for RC database.

[jmeris]

Somemone who knows Honda's well and what to look for,someone who can identify a GSR rod bearing on a B16 after quickly popping the oil pan and rod cap off the winning car.

 

Won't fit correctly...GSR/Type R's rod bearings are narrower than the B16's

[ITAIntegraLS]

You will be surprised. Jonathan i sent you a message you never responded about the b20B.

 

Edo

 

Somemone who knows Honda's well and what to look for,someone who can identify a GSR rod bearing on a B16 after quickly popping the oil pan and rod cap off the winning car.

 

Won't fit correctly...GSR/Type R's rod bearings are narrower than the B16's

[JW Racing]

Somemone who knows Honda's well and what to look for,someone who can identify a GSR rod bearing on a B16 after quickly popping the oil pan and rod cap off the winning car.

 

Won't fit correctly...GSR/Type R's rod bearings are narrower than the B16's

 

Exactly... why do you think people use them,narrower=less friction and more HP. If you re-tang the B16 or LS rod it is easily done. I have seen it done here in so cal.There is so much people don't know about these engines.

 

K Series is the narrowest bearing of all.The journals are far too large to use on B series motors though.Thats why K series is the way to go!

[B.KRAUS]

H series is the way to go.lol.