jason Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 They usually note that in group 3-4 there are safe but sometimes more aggressive behaviors and most of the drivers are flat out for the whole session. I used to think I was driving hard for a whole session too before I started running TT laps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 The only rule I would like to see changed is at Nationals it should take more than one lap, W2W guys have to run 2 qualifing sessions, 2 Qualifing Races and one Final Race, that's two extra races. TT should have to average your fastest three sessions over 4 days. IMO Just a random thought, but why not have the points system at Nationals that the W2W drivers use to set the grid for their final race? Assign points for each day's (or session's) winner, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Add them up at the end of the weekend and see where they are; the driver with the most points wins. The quickest overall lap could be used as a tiebreaker. This would force everybody to run in every session (or once every day, depending if you use the best-of-the-session points method or the best-of-the-day points method), even if it's only for a lap or two at a time. But, missing 1 session for any reason (breakage, in the bathroom, whatever) would sink your chances at winning overall. Or, leave it like it is...drive all that way and spend all that gas money to run 1 lap in 1 session over the course of 4 days and take the win. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 They usually note that in group 3-4 there are safe but sometimes more aggressive behaviors and most of the drivers are flat out for the whole session. I used to think I was driving hard for a whole session too before I started running TT laps. I agree. I can generally drop 4-6 seconds from a traffic-free HPDE lap versus a fast TT lap with a rabbit in front of me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 I used to think I was driving hard for a whole session too before I started running TT laps. When it's as fast as you (think you) can go....reach a little deeper Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 The only rule I would like to see changed is at Nationals it should take more than one lap, W2W guys have to run 2 qualifing sessions, 2 Qualifing Races and one Final Race, that's two extra races. TT should have to average your fastest three sessions over 4 days. IMO Just a random thought, but why not have the points system at Nationals that the W2W drivers use to set the grid for their final race? Assign points for each day's (or session's) winner, 2nd, 3rd, etc. Add them up at the end of the weekend and see where they are; the driver with the most points wins. The quickest overall lap could be used as a tiebreaker. This would force everybody to run in every session (or once every day, depending if you use the best-of-the-session points method or the best-of-the-day points method), even if it's only for a lap or two at a time. But, missing 1 session for any reason (breakage, in the bathroom, whatever) would sink your chances at winning overall. Or, leave it like it is...drive all that way and spend all that gas money to run 1 lap in 1 session over the course of 4 days and take the win. Mark What he said... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vettedoctor Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 There should be some way to keep someone from running 1 session at Nationals and winning, you should have to keep your car running and see progress throughout the weekend. If you are going to win a National Championship you should be dedicated to running TT the whole weekend - or at least you should have to go through a set of tires or two! This would also lessen the chances that someone runs a "magical" lap out of nowhere and somehow slips through tech without GPS, weighing or dynoing. If you run 1 flyer and lay 2 turds no championship for you! I like Kens idea of best times of 3 sessions, you get something like 12 sessions over the 4 days, so you should have to show some kind of consitency at Nationals, I mean it is Nationals for crying out loud. If you have a mechanical it also gives you time to fix it over the weekend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKBITN Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 I say keep the rule's as is.The way the rule's are now work's. Robert Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 I say keep the rule's as is.The way the rule's are now work's. Robert New rule: Assess an extra point for every improperly used apostrophe in a post. +3 to you, sir... Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 4, 2010 Share Posted November 4, 2010 well if you have SERIOUS actual suggestions you outta send 'em into Greg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 I say keep the rule's as is.The way the rule's are now work's. Robert New rule: Assess an extra point for every improperly used apostrophe in a post. +3 to you, sir... Mark Thats' funny rite thar!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 That wont work for nationals. What happens when a mod, due to interpretation, becomes illegal on Saturday and all your times become disqualified? All TT cars would have to be inspected by Greg and Jody prior to the first session. I doubt that would happen. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L98Terror Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 That wont work for nationals. What happens when a mod, due to interpretation, becomes illegal on Saturday and all your times become disqualified? All TT cars would have to be inspected by Greg and Jody prior to the first session. I doubt that would happen. What is the problem? Bring a legal car. After winning the National Championship is any race class if you are found to be running an illegal part you're Disqualified. NASA rules are clear there is no interpretation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vettedoctor Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 That wont work for nationals. What happens when a mod, due to interpretation, becomes illegal on Saturday and all your times become disqualified? All TT cars would have to be inspected by Greg and Jody prior to the first session. I doubt that would happen. You still have 3 sessions to go, better make 'em count! Plus it's your own fault for not showing up in a legal car If you think there is something on the car that's borderline you should get to the bottom of it before Nationals. I must have sent out 3 or 4 e-mails on things to Shawn before Nats asking about certian borderline calls IMO. This made me feel confident that everything was in order. Although it's still nerve racking watching your car get a rectal by the officials. By Saturday the faster cars will have risen toward the top of the time sheets so most of them will have been looked over. I think our TTA car got it's exam on Friday along with a trip to the dyno. Can't remember when they threw the GPS on. Although this would be more difficult at Mid-Ohio because there is typically a little rain in the forcast at least one day, which is part of the fun of TT, planning where to use the sticker tires and what sessions you think will be the fastest. I think that the 3 session average is a really fair way to do this, it solves most of the "issues" with the current format. No one hit wonders, no one slipping past tech early, and more pressure to perform at a high level over a course of the weekend. I mean it is for a National Championship not a regional, real champions should be able to repeat there performance especially when it counts! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Our car won every session at Nationals. We didnt get put on the Dyno until late Saturday afternoon and was put under a full inspection at the same time. They intrepreted our bumper to have canards, which it was a 1/8" lip in the design of the bumper. Everyone in my class said it wasnt a canard, but I'm not going to argue with Jody or Greg. So we lost all our times and started over. My point is when you build a car to the limit of the class with zero pts remaining, an official may intrepret a part differently than you do or your regional director does. That's just how it goes. We didnt have a problem with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L98Terror Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Our car won every session at Nationals. We didnt get put on the Dyno until late Saturday afternoon and was put under a full inspection at the same time. They intrepreted our bumper to have canards, which it was a 1/8" lip in the design of the bumper. Everyone in my class said it wasnt a canard, but I'm not going to argue with Jody or Greg. So we lost all our times and started over. My point is when you build a car to the limit of the class with zero pts remaining, an official may intrepret a part differently than you do or your regional director does. That's just how it goes. We didnt have a problem with it. It happens and now you should be all set for Mid Ohio Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L98Terror Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 well if you have SERIOUS actual suggestions you outta send 'em into Greg Isn't that what this is? Greg is the Moderators I'd hope he reads these threads. This is not the first time it has been suggested. At Mid Ohio a rule change to best 3 would really mix things up because I believe a lot of the faster TTers will also be racing and that will make for a very busy weekend. Besides I think it would ad to the accomplishment and excitement plus you would have more cars out there every session. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smokinjoe Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Yes we will! If folks are new to nationals I think they could/would be discouraged in knowing that all their times were lost due to an interpretation of the rules, esp if they are winning their sessions. 2nd place becomes winner by default under the above proposal and puts the onus on Greg/Jody to tear down every TT car by Thur morn. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vettedoctor Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Yes we will! If folks are new to nationals I think they could/would be discouraged in knowing that all their times were lost due to an interpretation of the rules, esp if they are winning their sessions. 2nd place becomes winner by default under the above proposal and puts the onus on Greg/Jody to tear down every TT car by Thur morn. I wouldn't say Thursday morning, I would say they should have the top 5 cars in each class looked over by Friday night. That's only 30 cars and I would think that over half of those cars would be cars that have been in TT for years and you already know if your car is legal or not. It's also possible to ask one of the officals to look your car over some evening, just make sure you have some cold Corona and I'm sure they'll spend 15 min to look at your car while enjoying a cold beer. Yes there are going to be cars that save there best for Saturday and will move up the ladder, but when they show up on the radar they will have to be looked at. No system is perfect but I like what Ken has proposed we talked about that after the 2009 Nats and I thought it was a good idea there. Boarderline calls are always going to be that way but winning a National Championship shouldn't be easy, you should have to work for it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L98Terror Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Yes we will! If folks are new to nationals I think they could/would be discouraged in knowing that all their times were lost due to an interpretation of the rules, esp if they are winning their sessions. 2nd place becomes winner by default under the above proposal and puts the onus on Greg/Jody to tear down every TT car by Thur morn. The Onus is on the participant to make sure their car is legal, it's the same rule set for PT & ST Hell I've been doing this since 2007 and have three National Championships under my belt yet I have never showed up at Nationals with no points/lbs to spare. It's a big risk that you take. BTW I want to discourage everyone that will be bringing an illegal car to nationals to stay home. Any part you change you should get clarification from Greg on the legality and then save those emails, print put in a folder and carry them with you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Legal car is nebulous term. The answer is legal at the event. With a good part number list I could bust a lot of cars on a technicality in TTA - F. They have to prove me wrong. Mods are easy. What is OEM is not for a particular year or model in many cases. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FormulaRedline Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 I'm not even really sure why this is being discussed. It's Time Trial. Single best lap. Like qualifying. When is the last time you saw NASCAR, F1, or Indy average the best 3 or 4 laps to determine pole position? If you are trying to figure out not only who is fast but also consistent, this measure already exists. Just go find your regional season champions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 When is the last time you saw NASCAR, F1, or Indy average the best 3 or 4 laps to determine pole position? Uh, it's called the Indianapolis 500. Small race, every May. 4-lap average for all drivers. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 I would like to make a rule that Hoosier has to sell me tires for $50 each. I'd buy a bunch more Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 F1 knockout style competition would be sweet (/potstir!) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L98Terror Posted November 5, 2010 Share Posted November 5, 2010 Legal car is nebulous term. The answer is legal at the event. With a good part number list I could bust a lot of cars on a technicality in TTA - F. They have to prove me wrong. Mods are easy. What is OEM is not for a particular year or model in many cases. They may be nebulous to you but to me not so much, all my cars are to the letter of the rules nothing left for interpretation, but it seems that as every year passes people continue to push the envelope. I'm hoping I don't get caught up in it but it might be inevitable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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