TT -> 2011 rules speculation! (Joke Thread-outrageous ideas)

[L98Terror]

I'm not even really sure why this is being discussed. It's Time Trial. Single best lap. Like qualifying. When is the last time you saw NASCAR, F1, or Indy average the best 3 or 4 laps to determine pole position?

 

If you are trying to figure out not only who is fast but also consistent, this measure already exists. Just go find your regional season champions.

 

Rarely is your Regional Champion your National Champion, Regional Champion=Attendance award

[jason]

F1 knockout style competition would be sweet

 

(/potstir!)

This

[Trevor57]

I'm not even really sure why this is being discussed. It's Time Trial. Single best lap. Like qualifying. When is the last time you saw NASCAR, F1, or Indy average the best 3 or 4 laps to determine pole position?

 

If you are trying to figure out not only who is fast but also consistent, this measure already exists. Just go find your regional season champions.

 

Rarely is your Regional Champion your National Champion, Regional Champion=Attendance award

 

Maybe in some of the classes. Surely not all.

[Vettedoctor]

 

Rarely is your Regional Champion your National Champion, Regional Champion=Attendance award

 

Maybe in some of the classes. Surely not all.

 

Did you just call me Shirley? You know better than that 5 7 Crimson!

[Vettedoctor]

They may be nebulous to you but to me not so much, all my cars are to the letter of the rules nothing left for interpretation, but it seems that as every year passes people continue to push the envelope. I'm hoping I don't get caught up in it but it might be inevitable.

 

Ken,

 

People are going to push the rules, it's the nature of racing. The free mod list and careful selection of points mods for TTA-F gives you a lot to work with and if you are not taking advantage of those mods don't be suprised when you're not toward the top of the time sheets.

 

The TTS-U-R rules are so open that people are constantly going to improve there cars every way that they can. If you stand still in those classes they will pass you by. I'm always trying to think of new ways to make my cars faster then the next guys.

If you had a car designed by a real pro race shop - like Pratt and Miller or Riley and driven by a good shoe they would more than likely come in and spank us. (Kind of like when Cadillac showed up in World Challange) Right now everyone is having a lot of fun in our sandbox because for the most part we are all true amatures enjoying the sport, what are we going to do if a Scott Tucker type comes in with a multi-million dollar team? Who knows? I hope it doesn't happen.

[Trevor57]

I couldn't agree more. I was truly blown away this year when I showed up In my TTA street car, and ran slower than my TTC car. Why? The TTA car had none of the free mods that is worth seconds a lap.

[Varkwso]

F1 knockout style competition would be sweet

 

(/potstir!)

This

 

I like this one. But it is not TT. Fastest laps may or may not take the win...

[awdracer]

deleted

 

 

 

BTW I want to discourage everyone that will be bringing an illegal car to nationals to stay home.

 

You just told people to bring illegal cars to nationals. English is funny that way!

[kbrew8991]

I'm not even really sure why this is being discussed. It's Time Trial. Single best lap. Like qualifying. When is the last time you saw NASCAR, F1, or Indy average the best 3 or 4 laps to determine pole position?

 

If you are trying to figure out not only who is fast but also consistent, this measure already exists. Just go find your regional season champions.

 

Rarely is your Regional Champion your National Champion, Regional Champion=Attendance award

 

blame your regional TT director for not offering enough "drops"

 

- KB, who says to win in TX you'd better be fast and show up to more than a few, but not so many its an attendance award or anything close to it

[kbrew8991]

I couldn't agree more. I was truly blown away this year when I showed up In my TTA street car, and ran slower than my TTC car. Why? The TTA car had none of the free mods that is worth seconds a lap.

 

the free mod list is way too damn long IMHO. But that cat is out of the bag... fffffffffffffff

[philstireservice]

I couldn't agree more. I was truly blown away this year when I showed up In my TTA street car, and ran slower than my TTC car. Why? The TTA car had none of the free mods that is worth seconds a lap.

 

the free mod list is way too damn long IMHO. But that cat is out of the bag... fffffffffffffff

 

 

The entire TT and PT list is to long period.

[Varkwso]

Free mod list should be longer. Rules enforcement should be focused on key items.

[Trevor57]

Is that to insure that nobody can be competitive without buying tons of parts?

[L98Terror]

They may be nebulous to you but to me not so much, all my cars are to the letter of the rules nothing left for interpretation, but it seems that as every year passes people continue to push the envelope. I'm hoping I don't get caught up in it but it might be inevitable.

 

Ken,

 

People are going to push the rules, it's the nature of racing. The free mod list and careful selection of points mods for TTA-F gives you a lot to work with and if you are not taking advantage of those mods don't be suprised when you're not toward the top of the time sheets.

 

The TTS-U-R rules are so open that people are constantly going to improve there cars every way that they can. If you stand still in those classes they will pass you by. I'm always trying to think of new ways to make my cars faster then the next guys.

If you had a car designed by a real pro race shop - like Pratt and Miller or Riley and driven by a good shoe they would more than likely come in and spank us. (Kind of like when Cadillac showed up in World Challange) Right now everyone is having a lot of fun in our sandbox because for the most part we are all true amatures enjoying the sport, what are we going to do if a Scott Tucker type comes in with a multi-million dollar team? Who knows? I hope it doesn't happen.

 

You and I will have to agree to disagree, at this level I still believe there is no need to push the rules. IMO I feel that Geff and I would gain more time if we sat down and examined data acq. from each others cars and possibly switched cars for a few sessions, than if you spent full two days testing and making adjustments.

 

Dude in the 2008 ST2 Championship race I had shocks that were missing valves in them for god sake(found that out when they were sent out to be revalved) and still ran the fastest race lap, what that tells me is there is so much that most of us can still learn as a driver that changing car set up may just hurt us more than help. I understand when there is someone going faster it makes us want to make changes to the car because our ego won't allow us to believe it might be the operator not the car.

 

and when you talk about free mods and all that crap I'll believe you when the top three TTA cars are running 1:32.xx or lower at Mid Ohio, we already know a 9.5:1 Z06, with no free mods, full weight running 275 Hankooks, not the C91s but old C70s went into the 1:33s three years ago and that was with a bobble so a low 1:33/high 1:32 was possible....that puts TTS/ST2 in the 1:30s. The question is why are we not there? I believe because we are messing with the cars to much and for me mind mind hasn't grasped how fast I can really go.

 

In theory if you took that TTA Z06 and dropped the HP/lb ratio to the limit, slapped on C91 or A6s and used all the free mods that 1:33 should be more like a 1:31.xxx or at least a low 1:32 and hell I'm not even there with my TTS/ST2 car with all the mods in the world.

 

I guess the moral of the story is we are competing for a plastic trophy and bragging rights and if you need to push the rules to do that what does it say about your character? I understand that everyone says that is part of racing and I have had those around me throw out ways to "push the rules" and I refuse to entertain the idea, maybe that makes me stupid or naive but at least for now that is the road I'm going to take but if NASA continues to look the other way on the rules they wrote it and turn this thing into a joke, I'll have to make a desision to either take my toy and pl;ay in another sandbox or join the raindeer games.

 

 

I read the rules and this part serious

 

Any car exceding the minimum “Adjusted” weight/power ratio for its declared class, or

otherwise found to be non-compliant with the rules for its declared class, will be penalized in

accordance with the NASA CCR and these rules. The penalty for competing with a vehicle in a

class lower than that dictated by the Super Touring Classification system or an otherwise noncompliant

vehicle, regardless of driver/owner intentions, will be a two race disqualification for

the previous two races for the first offense. A second offense will result in a loss of half of the

season points, a two race suspension, and disqualification from the race. At third offense, there

will be a loss of all season points and a four race suspension. The fourth offense will result in

permanent ejection from the series. Any disqualification or suspension will result in zero points

that cannot be dropped.

[L98Terror]

deleted

 

 

 

BTW I want to discourage everyone that will be bringing an illegal car to nationals, please just stay home.

 

You just told people to bring illegal cars to nationals. English is funny that way!

 

 

Thanks

[L98Terror]

Is that to insure that nobody can be competitive without buying tons of parts?

 

Disagree, the 2007 TTA National Champion car had almost no free mods & 2009 National TTA Champion had very few.

[awdracer]

 

 

 

BTW I want to discourage everyone that will be bringing an illegal car to nationals, please just stay home.

 

You just told people to bring illegal cars to nationals. English is funny that way!

 

 

Thanks

 

No problem. I won't admit to how many times I had to read it to come to that conclusion.

[philstireservice]

L98Terror

Dude in the 2008 ST2 Championship race I had shocks that were missing valves in them for god sake(found that out when they were sent out to be revalved) and still ran the fastest race lap, what that tells me is there is so much that most of us can still learn as a driver that changing car set up may just hurt us more than help. I understand when there is someone going faster it makes us want to make changes to the car because our ego won't allow us to believe it might be the operator not the car.

 

 

 

 

Bingo !!

 

Spend the money on a driver coach.....resist the temptation to throw $$$ at a car when deep down inside it's you who needs the work, not the car.

[Vettedoctor]

Is that to insure that nobody can be competitive without buying tons of parts?

 

Disagree, the 2007 TTA National Champion car had almost no free mods & 2009 National TTA Champion had very few.

 

And the 2010 TTA Champion, that did have a lot of the free mods went over 4 seconds faster at Miller.

(I know the previous record was weak - Greg didn't even use his set of stickers)

[Vettedoctor]

Dude in the 2008 ST2 Championship race I had shocks that were missing valves in them for god sake(found that out when they were sent out to be revalved) and still ran the fastest race lap, what that tells me is there is so much that most of us can still learn as a driver that changing car set up may just hurt us more than help. I understand when there is someone going faster it makes us want to make changes to the car because our ego won't allow us to believe it might be the operator not the car.

 

and when you talk about free mods and all that crap I'll believe you when the top three TTA cars are running 1:32.xx or lower at Mid Ohio, we already know a 9.5:1 Z06, with no free mods, full weight running 275 Hankooks, not the C91s but old C70s went into the 1:33s three years ago and that was with a bobble so a low 1:33/high 1:32 was possible....that puts TTS/ST2 in the 1:30s. The question is why are we not there? I believe because we are messing with the cars to much and for me mind mind hasn't grasped how fast I can really go.

 

In theory if you took that TTA Z06 and dropped the HP/lb ratio to the limit, slapped on C91 or A6s and used all the free mods that 1:33 should be more like a 1:31.xxx or at least a low 1:32 and hell I'm not even there with my TTS/ST2 car with all the mods in the world.

 

I guess the moral of the story is we are competing for a plastic trophy and bragging rights and if you need to push the rules to do that what does it say about your character? I understand that everyone says that is part of racing and I have had those around me throw out ways to "push the rules" and I refuse to entertain the idea, maybe that makes me stupid or naive but at least for now that is the road I'm going to take but if NASA continues to look the other way on the rules they wrote it and turn this thing into a joke, I'll have to make a desision to either take my toy and pl;ay in another sandbox or join the raindeer games.

 

 

I read the rules and this part serious

 

Any car exceding the minimum “Adjusted” weight/power ratio for its declared class, or

otherwise found to be non-compliant with the rules for its declared class, will be penalized in

accordance with the NASA CCR and these rules. The penalty for competing with a vehicle in a

class lower than that dictated by the Super Touring Classification system or an otherwise noncompliant

vehicle, regardless of driver/owner intentions, will be a two race disqualification for

the previous two races for the first offense. A second offense will result in a loss of half of the

season points, a two race suspension, and disqualification from the race. At third offense, there

will be a loss of all season points and a four race suspension. The fourth offense will result in

permanent ejection from the series. Any disqualification or suspension will result in zero points

that cannot be dropped.

 

We would never bring a car that is illegal, so I shouldn't say that we are pushing the rules, but we are definatly going to develop our cars. I think the guys in the SE are a great example of how developing the cars in a certian region makes all of them faster. The way they push each other all year is more what I'm talking about, if you brought your old TTA car down there it would be really tough to compete with them. I know we worked on our car harder before Nationals to make it ready for a showdown against Mark for TTA, unfortunately he couldn't make it, but our car was better because of it.

I think the GL region has done a similar thing with the TTS/TTU cars with you and James and Danny and Mike working hard for victories.

I'm not saying pushing the rules and trying to cheat, I'm saying develop the cars more within the rules and try to give yourself the best possible car to compete with. You know me better than that, we just want to have some good close racing and I think we will have just that at Mid-O in 2011.

 

Obviously with Nat's being at Mid-O everyone (not only the GL region) will be bringing there A game there in 2011, I think with some good weather the times will be falling again.

[Varkwso]

Regional champion is not all about attendance. It takes consistency and reliability more then one event and then rest on your laurels. Winning for a season is never easy or cheap.

 

It is like saying you are a national Champ just because you went.

[TurboShortBus]

guess the moral of the story is we are competing for a plastic trophy and bragging rights and if you need to push the rules to do that what does it say about your character?

Do not underestimate a driver's desire to win $1,000+ worth of Hoosiers each weekend (depending on attendance); it's like giving free crack to crackheads who smoke their crack better than the other crackheads. Drivers are competing for much more than a $7 trophy.

 

Mark

[drivinhardz06]

I think the guys in the SE are a great example of how developing the cars in a certian region makes all of them faster. The way they push each other all year is more what I'm talking about

 

it's an arms race requiring deficit spending, slush funds and espionage

[jason]

it's an arms race requiring deficit spending, slush funds and espionage

and Mutually Assured Destruction.

[sperkins]

it's an arms race requiring deficit spending, slush funds and espionage

and Mutually Assured Destruction.