hustler Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 Trying to shoehorn an already modded car into a TT class rarely results in a competitive car. Which is why I'm adjusting HP. You're not going to find a Miata on the planet running stock 124/95lb springs, an open diff, or stock sway bars for obvious reasons. However, you can get away with running the stock, aforementioned components on a heavier, modern car. I think the Miata is a poor choice for the rule set. Again, if I don't like it, I have the power to change it, and I'm fully aware that it's my problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I think the Miata is a poor choice for the rule set. The people that consistently do well with them in TTD and TTE will vehemently disagree with you. Dan's TTB Miata will probably disagree with you as well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 I think the Miata is a poor choice for the rule set. The people that consistently do well with them in TTD and TTE will vehemently disagree with you. Dan's TTB Miata will probably disagree with you as well If I cut 20hp and eat 5lbs I have a copy of Dan's car without the Hoosiers and without the wing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 27, 2011 National Staff Share Posted January 27, 2011 the SE guys do have a strong TT region but Texas TTA is stout in its own right as well. (note that data below is only across 2 seasons) TRs for TTA: MSRH 2.38 CCW: 1:42.081 MSRC 1.70 CCW: 1:22.755 TWS 2.9 CCW: 1:56.038 Hallett CW: 1:24.785 TWS 2.9 CW: 1:55.179 Eagles Canyon: 1:59.933 TTB: MSRH 2.38 CCW: 1:42.675 MSRC 1.70 CCW: 1:27.682 TWS 2.9 CCW: 2:00.654 Hallett CW: 1:27.413 TWS 2.9 CW: 1:57.136 Eagles Canyon: 1:59.695 It'll be less expensive (which means more $$ to stay in fresh hoosiers!) to add a few lbs and run a touch less boost than it would be to really mod up to really push the limits of A. Either way the real time gain is using the free mods and also making sure the points you do take are parts/stuff that maximizes the use of said points. Just my $0.02, ymmv In order to get into TTB, I'd have to get the designation with no "**". I don't have that info in my email, I suspect there is a reason for that. I was told I can go up to 2340/262 and get TTA*, but that * pushes me into TTS because again, my mod list will not change. I'm going to regret saying this, but I should be able to run with TTA if I add hoosiers wing, and splitter. Would you believe me if I told you I've already maxed-out the free mod list? My car is a mutant. Also running at a 10.21:1 in TTA, a class of 8.7:1 corvettes i doubt will bode well for you. Look at making a restrictor plate for the car if you don't want to detune it anymore. I'd shoot for simple mods on your car. Coilovers/shocks torsen 225 ho-hos decent brake setup (wilwood setup for the car is very reasonably priced) Not sure what other mods you have and are taking points for, but i'd consider removing them to fit in a class the car will be competitive in. TTA is going to crush me; I already have all the mod's you've listed. My numbers: +7 - NT-01 +3 - upgraded number of forward gears +3 - differential +2 - swaybar +3 - modified shocks +2 - coil springs +2 - ball joints +2 - calipers +3 - front bumper "aero" -10 - -40mm tire +17 points assessed There's not really much I can change to grab a few points, I have too much work in the bumper to change that, 5-speeds blow up fast, +2 on ball joints won't "get me there". I've emailed Greg asking which power level to run TTB with no "*". Although I just spent $60 on vinyl, I'm kind of leaning toward running DE4. I drive this car to work on occasion or when the weather is nice, so I don't really care to put 10" numbers on the doors and deal with all that comes with it. I suppose I have 24-hours to figure that out. Recalculate the TTA* re-class option using 295mm base tire size. I think you will find that there will be a very fast Miata using that setup this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I think the Miata is a poor choice for the rule set. Are you saying that the Miata is a poor car for the PT/TT rule set? The drivers that won national championships in PTA, PTD, TTE and PTE probably would disagree... as would Greg since he added rewards weight across the board to the various Miatae chassis. It's funny how it worked out but every PT/TT class that had a Miata entered was won by a Miata. Maybe I read that comment wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. By the way, does anyone know the plural of "chassis"? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 probably the same as the plural for Prius Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 the SE guys do have a strong TT region but Texas TTA is stout in its own right as well. (note that data below is only across 2 seasons) TRs for TTA: MSRH 2.38 CCW: 1:42.081 MSRC 1.70 CCW: 1:22.755 TWS 2.9 CCW: 1:56.038 Hallett CW: 1:24.785 TWS 2.9 CW: 1:55.179 Eagles Canyon: 1:59.933 TTB: MSRH 2.38 CCW: 1:42.675 MSRC 1.70 CCW: 1:27.682 TWS 2.9 CCW: 2:00.654 Hallett CW: 1:27.413 TWS 2.9 CW: 1:57.136 Eagles Canyon: 1:59.695 It'll be less expensive (which means more $$ to stay in fresh hoosiers!) to add a few lbs and run a touch less boost than it would be to really mod up to really push the limits of A. Either way the real time gain is using the free mods and also making sure the points you do take are parts/stuff that maximizes the use of said points. Just my $0.02, ymmv In order to get into TTB, I'd have to get the designation with no "**". I don't have that info in my email, I suspect there is a reason for that. I was told I can go up to 2340/262 and get TTA*, but that * pushes me into TTS because again, my mod list will not change. I'm going to regret saying this, but I should be able to run with TTA if I add hoosiers wing, and splitter. Would you believe me if I told you I've already maxed-out the free mod list? My car is a mutant. Also running at a 10.21:1 in TTA, a class of 8.7:1 corvettes i doubt will bode well for you. Look at making a restrictor plate for the car if you don't want to detune it anymore. I'd shoot for simple mods on your car. Coilovers/shocks torsen 225 ho-hos decent brake setup (wilwood setup for the car is very reasonably priced) Not sure what other mods you have and are taking points for, but i'd consider removing them to fit in a class the car will be competitive in. TTA is going to crush me; I already have all the mod's you've listed. My numbers: +7 - NT-01 +3 - upgraded number of forward gears +3 - differential +2 - swaybar +3 - modified shocks +2 - coil springs +2 - ball joints +2 - calipers +3 - front bumper "aero" -10 - -40mm tire +17 points assessed There's not really much I can change to grab a few points, I have too much work in the bumper to change that, 5-speeds blow up fast, +2 on ball joints won't "get me there". I've emailed Greg asking which power level to run TTB with no "*". Although I just spent $60 on vinyl, I'm kind of leaning toward running DE4. I drive this car to work on occasion or when the weather is nice, so I don't really care to put 10" numbers on the doors and deal with all that comes with it. I suppose I have 24-hours to figure that out. Recalculate the TTA* re-class option using 295mm base tire size. I think you will find that there will be a very fast Miata using that setup this year. You're right. He's leaving 9 points on the table. Maybe more. I'll look later. Gotta leave right now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 I think the Miata is a poor choice for the rule set. Are you saying that the Miata is a poor car for the PT/TT rule set? The drivers that won national championships in PTA, PTD, TTE and PTE probably would disagree... as would Greg since he added rewards weight across the board to the various Miatae chassis. It's funny how it worked out but every PT/TT class that had a Miata entered was won by a Miata. Maybe I read that comment wrong. It wouldn't be the first time. By the way, does anyone know the plural of "chassis"? Maybe I'm a novice and shouldn't make stupid statements, lol. When I added up the mod's available for a C6z in TTA, I felt penalized, like a victime...I think that's "victimized". Aparently i can drop the car to 215hp and get TTB and keep my suspension mods. This seems like the way, but it will take a wastegate spring to get there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Recalculate the TTA* re-class option using 295mm base tire size. I think you will find that there will be a very fast Miata using that setup this year. I wish someone would build a TTA Miata and run it down here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 C6z in TTA you mean the car that's sent straight to TTS, U or R because its too fast? I think you meant C5 Z06. And they have to stay reeeeaaalllyyy super stock and have to run narrower Hoosiers than they'd prefer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 Recalculate the TTA* re-class option using 295mm base tire size. I think you will find that there will be a very fast Miata using that setup this year. I wish someone would build a TTA Miata and run it down here. If I could do it all over again, I'd build a rougher Miata and stuff a cage in it. My power plant will easily make the power needed for TTA, but frankly...I'm afraid to go much faster without a cage. I ran the car a few times at 310whp and it's a handfull, lays stripes in 4th at will, and can throttle steer in 6th with the help of some aero-lift. If the Miata rolls, the A-pillar comes in and that's not something I'm terribly comfortable with, so I run it on the wastegate spring at 11psi. I'd also need to procure a tow vehicle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 My power plant will easily make the power needed for TTA, but frankly...I'm afraid to go much faster without a cage. I can't even imagine running a cageless miata at TTA speeds at a place like road atlanta. Jason wouldn't even do that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 My power plant will easily make the power needed for TTA, but frankly...I'm afraid to go much faster without a cage. I can't even imagine running a cageless miata at TTA speeds at a place like road atlanta. Jason wouldn't even do that ~140mph and 1.3g+ grip on entry into T1 at TWS is not exactly "fun" in my car. If I didn't "wear" the Miata like a sweater at 190lb/5'10" a cage might be doable, but that bar is was too close to my head. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 I wish someone would build a TTA Miata and run it down here. We could get'em up to 160mph drafting behind us. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 Recalculate the TTA* re-class option using 295mm base tire size. I think you will find that there will be a very fast Miata using that setup this year. I wish someone would build a TTA Miata and run it down here. Careful what you wish for! The PTA national champ set a lap record in a Miata with no draft. Don't forget that we also now have an open rule set for engines. The LS1 fits into the Miata with no penalty. It only has to make the required HP. It also gets back 19 points for tires that it can use on stuff to make a heaver car's life miserable (which is more of an advantage in PT than TT of course). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 "...open rule set for engines.." I missed that. Where is it in the rules. I like it. I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 (edited) It seems like most people get really excited when the SBC Miata is brought up. However I must say that I rarely see them go fast. I've been on track with plenty of them and I don't have any desire whatsoever to do that swap, which I could have done for the same price if not cheaper than building my car. I know there are a few fast ones hiding out, but at this point they're unicorns to most of us Miata guys. They gain 150-225lb but also get a "lifetime trans" and enough torque to make up for the weight on the straights. A local is putting one together who can drive so I look forward to seeing that car crush. The rear bearings have a tendancy to fail in dramatic fashion in the popular swap kits though, and that would scare me if I were putting one together. As for the 295's, I've seen a 275 on a Miata with flares, if someone is running a 295 they're doing it with an ET20 or less wheel and they're doing it on a 2nd gen Miata with flairs because there is no way that fits in a 1st gen car without magic dust...the 275 on a 9 is almost on the frame rail and fills out to the edge of the popular flare, with the tire wearing into the front flair. We Miata guys are also struggling for rotor size to stuff in our 15" wheels, some of the new 11.75" front kits help with that but there is not a good solution for the solid rear rotors yet. There's a kit for the rear that removes the park-brake, but I've saved my life with the park brake on more than one occasion. With all that trash talking out of the way, I still get warm and fuzzy every time I drive one and wouldn't kick one out of bed. I think a V8 Miata with good, clean aero will be a scorcher and rewrite the rule book. Edited January 27, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 psst - the tire size thing was to remind you that with the reclass the tire width used to calculate your tire points changes too TTB is based off 265s (I think, double check me), so if you're on 225s you get a pretty big chunk of points back - KB, who should try doing this TT/PT Consulting stuff for money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hustler Posted January 27, 2011 Author Share Posted January 27, 2011 psst - the tire size thing was to remind you that with the reclass the tire width used to calculate your tire points changes too TTB is based off 265s (I think, double check me), so if you're on 225s you get a pretty big chunk of points back - KB, who should try doing this TT/PT Consulting stuff for money... My -40 results in 10 points back at me, which I need to stay in my class. I'm happy to buy you a beer for your altruism. lol Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted January 27, 2011 Share Posted January 27, 2011 "...open rule set for engines.." I missed that. Where is it in the rules. I like it. I think. Name one thing that you CAN'T do to your engine after you dyno reclass it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 "...open rule set for engines.." I missed that. Where is it in the rules. I like it. I think. Name one thing that you CAN'T do to your engine after you dyno reclass it. I thought you're not allowed to touch anything on the engine after a dyno reclass since you have to submit the dyno reading before the reclass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
awdracer Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 "...open rule set for engines.." I missed that. Where is it in the rules. I like it. I think. Name one thing that you CAN'T do to your engine after you dyno reclass it. I thought you're not allowed to touch anything on the engine after a dyno reclass since you have to submit the dyno reading before the reclass. You're playing dodgeball. Dodge...duck...dip...dive...dodge. You know what I mean. What CAN'T you do to your engine if you decide to go the dyno reclass route? ***crickets chirping*** That is what I call and "unlimited rule set". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 You *can't* do something that'd make it test over, duh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted January 28, 2011 National Staff Share Posted January 28, 2011 psst - the tire size thing was to remind you that with the reclass the tire width used to calculate your tire points changes too TTB is based off 265s (I think, double check me), so if you're on 225s you get a pretty big chunk of points back - KB, who should try doing this TT/PT Consulting stuff for money... My -40 results in 10 points back at me, which I need to stay in my class. I'm happy to buy you a beer for your altruism. lol Yes, and with a TTA* re-class, you get 19 points back for tire size on 225's.......again, making the higher hp, lower weight TTA* re-class option the hot setup. And, I don't know if you will see one in Texas or the Southeast, but I'm pretty sure you will see one at the Championships. Vette vs Miata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted January 28, 2011 Share Posted January 28, 2011 Well crap. I should have built an ST2 Miata. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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