Tire issue- when is expected resolution for 2012 season??

[robbodleimages]

TJ, that suggestion about three sets of 17" wheels is like suggesting you buy up some ABS. Arguing aside there is no reasonable excuse for toyo to charge $130 more for the 18. There is no reasonable explanation that the Toyo RA1 is easily the most expensive DOT track tire in size 275/35-18. It entirely defies the reason that there is a spec tire.

 

3 sets of used Ford 95R's is less than $1000....and they will clear SOME 14" kits. Two sets of tires pays for that...how is that a problem? 17x9.5 Enkei RFP01's are right at $1000 a set if you feel you need good light weight wheels. Sell your 18's, sell your 14" kit and you probably have enough to buy stoptechs and 1 set of wheels. Heck, don't run 1/2 a season and save your pennies. There are SO many solutions to solve your problem....be thankful you dont have a GM!

 

Look for a solution that isn't just clicking "buy now" and writing a check.

 

$214 for a 17" race tire is AWESOME. It also negates some advantages of the 302S ABS

 

I like it. Sell your hard earned stuff for 50cents on the dollar or less, if you can, and then buy retail. or just not run half a season.

 

Even with the anti Ford perspective that some of you have, I can't believe that some of you actually support Toyo's pricing of these tires.

[D Algozine]

This doesn't apply to everyone with an S197, but come on....really. The rules were changed so S197 cars could have the bigger brakes, bigger wheels, better trans, race ABS, guys are having cars build for $50-$80k, but they are going to hold out if they don't get a price break on 18" tires. Does this sound crazy to anyone else ? How does "having your cake, eating it ...............and get it for free" ,sound to everyone ??

Don't get me wrong, the 18" price is high (although it appears it will come done) but, this really is a deal breaker from some guys?

Edited November 14, 2011 by Guest

[TreadZone]

Toyo did drop the price on this size. It looks like they will be around $275 plus shaving.

Joe

TreadZone

[robbodleimages]

This doesn't apply to everyone with an S197, but come on....really. The rules were changed so S197 cars could have the bigger brakes, bigger wheels, better trans, race ABS, guys are having cars build for $50-$80k, but they are going to hold out if they don't get a price break on 18" tires. Does this sound crazy to anyone else ? How does "having your cake, eating it ...............and get it for free" ,sound to everyone ??

Don't get me wrong, the 18" price is high (although it appears it will come done) but, this really is a deal breaker from some guys?

 

you are right. this doesnt apply to everyone. some of use with S197 cars are scrapping together the smallest of racing budgets. thats part of the problem with the S197 hate on these boards. you just assume that anyone driving these cars in teh 1% or something.

 

I also could see that someone would conclude that expecting toyo to price its ra1 in 18" somewhat similar to the industry norm based on the price of its 17" as asking for a price break. Hoosier, Goodyear, BF Goodrich, Yokohama, Hankook all show a $20 to $30 increase from 17 to 18. Toyo for some very strange reason price their 18 $130 higher. Its the difference between the 17" being the cheapest DOT track tire and the 18" being the most expensive on the market. Its not a price break, my friend.

 

$275 at least competitive.

[sundialracing]

This doesn't apply to everyone with an S197, but come on....really. The rules were changed so S197 cars could have the bigger brakes, bigger wheels, better trans, race ABS, guys are having cars build for $50-$80k, but they are going to hold out if they don't get a price break on 18" tires. Does this sound crazy to anyone else ? How does "having your cake, eating it ...............and get it for free" ,sound to everyone ??

Don't get me wrong, the 18" price is high (although it appears it will come done) but, this really is a deal breaker from some guys?

 

The reality is I spend a lot of money on a total package that is fun to drive... Toyo's are not enjoyable for me to race on therefore I will take my bat and ball and go play somewhere else..

 

No hard feelings to the AI family or NASA if that's the way it goes, I understand it is a business and you make decisions based on what you think is best for your business.. We can just agree to disagree on the Toyo subject.

[philstireservice]

This doesn't apply to everyone with an S197, but come on....really. The rules were changed so S197 cars could have the bigger brakes, bigger wheels, better trans, race ABS, guys are having cars build for $50-$80k, but they are going to hold out if they don't get a price break on 18" tires. Does this sound crazy to anyone else ? How does "having your cake, eating it ...............and get it for free" ,sound to everyone ??

Don't get me wrong, the 18" price is high (although it appears it will come done) but, this really is a deal breaker from some guys?

 

you are right. this doesnt apply to everyone. some of use with S197 cars are scrapping together the smallest of racing budgets. thats part of the problem with the S197 hate on these boards. you just assume that anyone driving these cars in teh 1% or something.

 

I also could see that someone would conclude that expecting toyo to price its ra1 in 18" somewhat similar to the industry norm based on the price of its 17" as asking for a price break. Hoosier, Goodyear, BF Goodrich, Yokohama, Hankook all show a $20 to $30 increase from 17 to 18. Toyo for some very strange reason price their 18 $130 higher. Its the difference between the 17" being the cheapest DOT track tire and the 18" being the most expensive on the market. Its not a price break, my friend.

 

$275 at least competitive.

 

Rob the Toyo 17" is priced way below the normal price point for a 275/40R17. Remember the Toyo's are not priced by the manufacturer.

[robbodleimages]

phil, i knew that. its a good reason for it to be the AI spec tire. the 18 price was well over the nominal 18 price which is just a strong a reason for it NOT to be the spec tire. $500 more per set of four is outragious.

 

its nice to see some reality on that. i'd guess thats a sign that toyo is reupping as the spec tire.

[D Algozine]

This doesn't apply to everyone with an S197, but come on....really. The rules were changed so S197 cars could have the bigger brakes, bigger wheels, better trans, race ABS, guys are having cars build for $50-$80k, but they are going to hold out if they don't get a price break on 18" tires. Does this sound crazy to anyone else ? How does "having your cake, eating it ...............and get it for free" ,sound to everyone ??

Don't get me wrong, the 18" price is high (although it appears it will come done) but, this really is a deal breaker from some guys?

 

The reality is I spend a lot of money on a total package that is fun to drive... Toyo's are not enjoyable for me to race on therefore I will take my bat and ball and go play somewhere else..

 

No hard feelings to the AI family or NASA if that's the way it goes, I understand it is a business and you make decisions based on what you think is best for your business.. We can just agree to disagree on the Toyo subject.

 

Reasonable and understandable.

However, here's the frustration of the "Old school" AI guys, non of which are self appointed poster boys. The rules where changed so more racers could easily join the existing AI ranks. However, these changes, that totally favored a single car, came at the cost of pi$$ing off and alignating a lot of core AI racers, some of which have since left. So, as I had suggested a long time ago, be careful who you cater to and bend the rules for.

Toyo has been NASA's and AI's spec tire since the beginning of time, or at least as long as I have known. Toyos have always been part of the AI package.

 

Also, if 18" tires are too expensive, you have options. The rules were specifically changed for the S197 cars, but they're not manditory. Put 17's on the car. Robin and Matt Erickson made it work way back in 2006. Call Dean at rehagen, he's one of the first guys to sell a 13" front brake kit for the S197, and I believe they also put together the simple proportioning valve in the S197 to race without ABS. Anders and Steve Poe in CMC seemed to figure it out and make it work with great success.

[robbodleimages]

* Its not that 18's tires are too expensive. Its that they are ridiculously overpriced based on the price of the 17. no other brand sells the the 275-18 at 40% more than the 275-17. Thats the issue. I expect to pay $250 to $280 or $265 to $300 for an 18 over a 17. That is the way it is with every other tire brand. 214 to 341 is the issue.

 

* Robin custom made his wheels based on a contact that he had. Good for him. I take advantage of my contacts too, but I dont use my good deal as the basis for setting up the rules for all that dont have them.

 

I race in NASA SE where none of this is an issue. Thank god.

[TreadZone]

* Its not that 18's tires are too expensive. Its that they are ridiculously overpriced based on the price of the 17. no other brand sells the the 275-18 at 40% more than the 275-17. Thats the issue. I expect to pay $250 to $280 or $265 to $300 for an 18 over a 17. That is the way it is with every other tire brand. 214 to 341 is the issue.

 

Did you see the new price is $275?

[robbodleimages]

I did and commented on it. That did not effect Dave's point of view that being unwilling to pay $125 more for an 18 than a 17 is asking for a concession.

 

I appreciate the repricing.

[svttim]

A'hem. Do we know Toyo will be the tire for AI?

 

I assume as much but, I have not seen that announced or, did I miss something?

[philstireservice]

A'hem. Do we know Toyo will be the tire for AI?

 

I assume as much but, I have not seen that announced or, did I miss something?

 

 

Nope you didn't miss anything....no word as of yet.

[svttim]

A'hem. Do we know Toyo will be the tire for AI?

 

I assume as much but, I have not seen that announced or, did I miss something?

 

 

Nope you didn't miss anything....no word as of yet.

 

 

Thanks

[T&A Racing]

* Its not that 18's tires are too expensive. Its that they are ridiculously overpriced based on the price of the 17. no other brand sells the the 275-18 at 40% more than the 275-17. Thats the issue. I expect to pay $250 to $280 or $265 to $300 for an 18 over a 17. That is the way it is with every other tire brand. 214 to 341 is the issue.

 

* Robin custom made his wheels based on a contact that he had. Good for him. I take advantage of my contacts too, but I dont use my good deal as the basis for setting up the rules for all that dont have them.

 

I race in NASA SE where none of this is an issue. Thank god.

 

Just in the name of accuracy, I have Robin's car and while he did have some wheels drilled, I have been able to buy off the shelf Enkie product that work just fine. Getting wheels drilled is not that big of a deal, but no need to do that with today's selection. Don't have dog in the this fight just want to make sure the facts were there in case someone read this and really wants to get wheels that work it is very easily done.

 

Now back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[robbodleimages]

Mark

 

Being fair to the time line. Robin got the specially drilled Corvette wheels because there were no wheels for the S197 off the shelf available. I got my car before the wheels you speak of came to market.

 

The reason teh 14" brakes were required was that they were the template and what was available on the market. thre were no 13" brakes for racing available for S197 when i got my car and fitted it out.

 

There are somethings now. Thats the thing that gets lost in this conversation/argument. The rules were opened up to allow the S197 car to fit with the parts that were generally available.

 

Anyway....I enjoy my NASA weekends and will continue to do so whether I race AI or ST2 and whether rules for AI require I make changes.

 

Its a shame there are so many here that are upset on both sides. To be clear, I am not upset.

[T&A Racing]

Mark

 

Being fair to the time line. Robin got the specially drilled Corvette wheels because there were no wheels for the S197 off the shelf available. I got my car before the wheels you speak of came to market.

 

The reason teh 14" brakes were required was that they were the template and what was available on the market. thre were no 13" brakes for racing available for S197 when i got my car and fitted it out.

 

There are somethings now. Thats the thing that gets lost in this conversation/argument. The rules were opened up to allow the S197 car to fit with the parts that were generally available.

 

Anyway....I enjoy my NASA weekends and will continue to do so whether I race AI or ST2 and whether rules for AI require I make changes.

 

Its a shame there are so many here that are upset on both sides. To be clear, I am not upset.

 

 

Yea no problem just wanted to make sure any one making choices today had the facts. I guess it is a matter of opinion, but I just don't think getting the wheels drilled is a huge thing that isn't really available to most. For a different set we were able to find a local shop with about three phone calls, and they did the job in a couple of days. I just don't want anyone thinking about doing this today to be given the impression this like building a custome part from scratch that would require your own Cnc machine or something. It just didn't seem like that big of a deal. So I am not sure it takes any connections since I sure don't have any. Granted Robin may but not sure he needed them of this part of the build.

[robbodleimages]

robin is a smart guy with access to a lot of smart people. i am not sure whether robin came up with the corvette wheel idea or whether it was dean or dario. what i do know is that robin was the lone ranger on those wheels for a reason.

 

most of us buy our stuff off the shelf. i dont engineer my own stuff and i'd guess that i am in the majority. robin builds his own race cars and i'd bet that puts him in the minority. you build your own too.

its a nice advantage. i am not sure its fair to think that everyone should work from that playbook. if building your own car was a requirement, the car count would be small.

[T&A Racing]

robin is a smart guy with access to a lot of smart people. i am not sure whether robin came up with the corvette wheel idea or whether it was dean or dario. what i do know is that robin was the lone ranger on those wheels for a reason.

 

most of us buy our stuff off the shelf. i dont engineer my own stuff and i'd guess that i am in the majority. robin builds his own race cars and i'd bet that puts him in the minority. you build your own too.

its a nice advantage. i am not sure its fair to think that everyone should work from that playbook. if building your own car was a requirement, the car count would be small.

 

Readers, I don't care what Rob says but just so you know, I don't build my cars I buy em, having wheels drilled is at as easy as buying fuel on the way to the track. I guess Rob has a reason he is blowing this way out of proportion. Just don't let this scare you away, just pm me and I will help you out. I even know some BMW guys that had some wheels fix up to fit their m3 for a resonable price. It is just not a big deal. Now this has nothing to do with who they decide to do or not do with the rules, not even relatd in my mind. I don't have a dog in that fight so don't care how that all works out. I have a perfect setup with 17's just waiting on a tire choice. Hopefully it will something we can all buy in both sizes for a resonable season spend.

[robbodleimages]

i am not sure how i am blowing it out of proportion. if i am, i am sorry. btw...is there a tire choice other than the toyo that would be acceptable?

[Red Tornado]

Thats a great price per tire if that sticks and they are the tire!!!

 

Oh and everyone should stop there crying till rules come out....

[T&A Racing]

i am not sure how i am blowing it out of proportion. if i am, i am sorry. btw...is there a tire choice other than the toyo that would be acceptable?

 

 

Yea not about tire choice for me, I don't really know much about tires or the pros and cons of each brand. I do know I spent a lot more last year on purple crack than previous years using Toyo But I can make it work either way so don't really care. Just want to make sure everyone has the facts. Pick your wheel size, or live with what you got, but 17's can be done no big deal. If you have 18's do the math based on tire prices and either stick with 18's or buy your 3 to 6 set of wheels in 17. I do think that NASA should pressure any tire sponsor to make sure both sizes are fairly priced for everyone. The racers should not have to supplement the vendor so that they can sponsor the series. I would rather just pay higher track fees and have no sponsor. If the tire vendor really is providing real money to the series in trade for our support then great.

[D Algozine]

Thats a great price per tire if that sticks and they are the tire!!!

 

Oh and everyone should stop there crying till rules come out....

 

Is only seems like crying... For some of us, its fighting for whats fair. It's fighting for a good reason to stay in the series that we used to really enjoy. It's getting back to that series and getting the racers back that have left..... When your point falls on deaf ears, then your only recourse is to get louder, or just repeat yourself. I'm sure you realize how passionate racers are about racing. Most of us spend countless hours and/or dollars, because we love it, or we are addicted.

Obviously, you don't agree with the message that some of us our trying to get across, but there are significant number of us, who feel like,.... simply, it hasn't been fair. We just want it to be fair.

I'm pretty sure, there wont be much BS when things are posted. You either can race with the rules or you can't.

[rpoz27]

if building your own car was a requirement, the car count would be small.

 

Making this statement shows you have no idea who is out there racing....ZERO cars have been bought in TX..they have all been built by owners or shops. Nothing arrived in a Ford racing transporter.

 

You will also find that the people who are most verbal about these issues are the ones BUILDING their own cars. It's basically become the builders vs. the check writers. It's racing. It happens. Just make it easier, cheaper, fair and equal.

[robbodleimages]

dont mess with texas