CMC#11 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 That is unfair to say it is wrong to go out and buy a new set of RA1's if everyone else has the ability to run them. Am I supposed to be punished b/c I didn't stock-pile RA1's during last season, NO! I have a new set of 888's ready to run and will gladly run them if everyone else in my region does the same. On the flip side if the top guys plan to show up the rest of the year with RA1's then I am certainly going to buy myself a set of new RA1's to compete with them. The entire situation is unfortuante b/c my guess is there is only a small % of the racers that this benefits and everyone else is getting hosed. Our third race weekend in TX is in 16 days and we get this news now. 16 days from now in TX every racer was supposed to be on 888's. IMO, this is a huge f-up on NASA's part!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Schotz Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 My bet... is Toyo realized they had way to many RA1's left... and needed to extend the availability 1 more year... to get most of the supply used up. Spec 944 were already on the 888's... so it makes sense for them to require the 888's. Again... I think it's just important, to get this clarified... obviously NASA is doing it's best to get this communication out there to everyone as early as possible, as most have just competed in 1 race. Luckily... I still have enough tires to get by on... And will have plenty of time to choose what to run at Miller. Peace, Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllZWay Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 That is unfair to say it is wrong to go out and buy a new set of RA1's if everyone else has the ability to run them. Am I supposed to be punished b/c I didn't stock-pile RA1's during last season, NO! I have a new set of 888's ready to run and will gladly run them if everyone else in my region does the same. On the flip side if the top guys plan to show up the rest of the year with RA1's then I am certainly going to buy myself a set of new RA1's to compete with them. The entire situation is unfortuante b/c my guess is there is only a small % of the racers that this benefits and everyone else is getting hosed. Our third race weekend in TX is in 16 days and we get this news now. 16 days from now in TX every racer was supposed to be on 888's. IMO, this is a huge f-up on NASA's part!! That is pretty much how I see it... as long RA1's are allowed... RA1's are what will mostly be raced. I am still on the fence about actually purchasing a new set of RA1's. I can probably make one more weekend with thin to wins, but I am sure considering purchasing a new set. With they way they continue to flip-flop who knows what the correct decision will be tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 That is unfair to say it is wrong to go out and buy a new set of RA1's if everyone else has the ability to run them. Am I supposed to be punished b/c I didn't stock-pile RA1's during last season, NO! I have a new set of 888's ready to run and will gladly run them if everyone else in my region does the same. On the flip side if the top guys plan to show up the rest of the year with RA1's then I am certainly going to buy myself a set of new RA1's to compete with them. The entire situation is unfortuante b/c my guess is there is only a small % of the racers that this benefits and everyone else is getting hosed. Our third race weekend in TX is in 16 days and we get this news now. 16 days from now in TX every racer was supposed to be on 888's. IMO, this is a huge f-up on NASA's part!! You are right, Micheal ... it's unfair. It's unfair to announce in May of 08 that all of 2009 will be a transition year and then change their mind in October. So don't talk to me about getting hosed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Den341548534727 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 My bet... is Toyo realized they had way to many RA1's left... and needed to extend the availability 1 more year... to get most of the supply used up. Dave ...I think you are spot on!!! Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I had 888's on order yesterday and changed it to RA1's today. If I had thought that all the CMC2 guys would run 888's I would have kept the 888 order going but I know at least one CMC2 guy that has RA1's to use up. I wish I had called all the CMC2 guys up and talked about this prior to me changing my order. I don't want an unfair advantage (even if I do need it). I assumed everyone would either run RA1's they had or order some. Last year I purchased 6 new tires prior to Hallett. I used them at Hallett, TWS, ECR last year and then MSRH and MSRC this year. The tires are completely gone. The new one's I ordered today will last me exactly the balance of the season and be just about gone after four race weekends and I will get the triple eights for next years first race weekend. Worst case is I may have one weekend left on the RA1's. Jerry Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tri-Agan Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 That is unfair to say it is wrong to go out and buy a new set of RA1's if everyone else has the ability to run them. Am I supposed to be punished b/c I didn't stock-pile RA1's during last season, NO! I didn't say it was wrong, I said I would rather they didn't. I even said I was tempted to buy them myself because they are $100 less per set. The reality is that I am getting better grip and longer life out of the 888 than I did with the RA-1, so it really wouldn't make a lot of sense for me to go back to the RA-1. If the rest of my region wants to go out and buy the RA-1, that's up to them. I think they will regret buying new ones and missing out on the opportunity this year to learn the characteristics of the 888. Kent Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 What a mess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 RA1's is all I had at Cresson. Mitch, you took our times off? JJ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro_1le Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 What a mess This is not a mess. A mess is unemployment over 10%, billions loaned to banks that aided the situation we are in, the progression toward nationalization of the auto industry, 401K's that are not worth the money it costs to send out the statements, etc, etc, etc.... Toyo is a major NASA sponsor, the economy sucks and they are stuck with far more RA1's then they figured on. They tell NASA to help them out and NASA obliges. Big deal. Maybe it would have been better if they ceased production of RA1's a year ago and you could not get any new ones after mid-2008. I am happy I have a set of 888's and can still afford to go racing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave Schotz Posted April 2, 2009 Author Share Posted April 2, 2009 Jim, way to put in perspective. Thanks! Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Toyo is a major NASA sponsor, the economy sucks and they are stuck with far more RA1's then they figured on. They tell NASA to help them out and NASA obliges. Big deal. Maybe it would have been better if they ceased production of RA1's a year ago and you could not get any new ones after mid-2008. From my many hours on the phone yesterday and today, this is close but not quite accurate. Toyo had planned on shit-canning all of the remaining RA1s, but because so many people called and complained that the 888 sucked, cost more $$$ and wore out faster something needed to be done. So in response to racers asking to have the RA1 back the best Toyo could do is extend the deadline, pull all remaining stock from warehouses and give the racers what they were asking for. Was the timing of the change good? No. But when you are dealing with a huge multi-national company such as Toyo, this was a fairly quick response for a temporary solution. Jan/Feb when more people started using them to end of March. Racers now have a choice to use the 888 which may be quicker up front (after you setup your suspension properly) than an RA1 and wear it out in 1/2 the time (and spend more $$$ on it), or they can find a set of RA1s (for cheaper) and have them last longer and go about the same speed. Pick your poison. So now that I have more detail, I for one am happy that I now have more time to decide if I should spend less on the RA1 and go with a proven tire or figure out how to go faster (and hopefully not spend faster) with the 888. Since I just bought a set of 888s, I am going to focus on figuring out how to use them and make the best of it. Here is some more detail in an email from Jerry K. to a competitor that might help explain.... (copied with permission) I do know that everyone that submitted object hard data indicated that the R888 heat cycle out faster. This, coupled with the increase in per-tire cost will hit some budgets pretty hard. Furthermore, the performance has proven to be a coin flip, right down the middle. Some may argue one way or another, but any difference is completely negligible, which confirms the hard data from back to back testing, which we did ourselves last year. Therefore, giving people a choice of which tire they want to run should be a good thing. Those that like the R888s (and there are some) can run them. Those that like the RA-1s and/or want to save money can use them. There is no hidden motive, no hidden agenda, no backdoor deal with Toyo. We are simply responding to a need that we see, especially during harder economic times for some. Since there is no proof that the RA-1 tire is any faster than the R888, then it doesn’t make sense to worry about those in CMC that want to run them. Heck, you might see bigger fields with this lower cost option. We are, as always, trying to do the best in a no-win situation. Our decisions are not always perfect, but I can assure you they are always forthright and sincerely take into account what we feel will be the best for each series. More… We have been collecting data from events early in the season and evaluating some data from last season. We came to the conclusion that the R888s were, when dialed in, about the same in performance as the RA-1s. Yet they have a higher cost and heat cycle out sooner. We approached Toyo with the data. There wasn’t much to say, except to ask about the viability of going back to RA-1s. This is not something that is good for Toyo, but they want our drivers to be happy. Since the RA-1 has been out of production since last Aug, most (if not all) of the molds are gone. However, there seems to be some decent amount of inventory left on the shelves. Since we made a commitment to Toyo to use the R888; and because of limited supply of RA-1s in some sizes, we couldn’t just discontinue the R888. Plus Toyo really wants our drivers to give it a run for the money. Therefore, we felt that the very best thing to do is to allow both tires for now as we extend the transition period until the end of the year. There is no way to tell what the future will hold at this point. We have agreed to meet with Toyo in a few months and see how things are going. We (Toyo and NASA) can then make a determination for the future (beyond 2009). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CMC#11 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 That is unfair to say it is wrong to go out and buy a new set of RA1's if everyone else has the ability to run them. Am I supposed to be punished b/c I didn't stock-pile RA1's during last season, NO! I have a new set of 888's ready to run and will gladly run them if everyone else in my region does the same. On the flip side if the top guys plan to show up the rest of the year with RA1's then I am certainly going to buy myself a set of new RA1's to compete with them. The entire situation is unfortuante b/c my guess is there is only a small % of the racers that this benefits and everyone else is getting hosed. Our third race weekend in TX is in 16 days and we get this news now. 16 days from now in TX every racer was supposed to be on 888's. IMO, this is a huge f-up on NASA's part!! You are right, Micheal ... it's unfair. It's unfair to announce in May of 08 that all of 2009 will be a transition year and then change their mind in October. So don't talk to me about getting hosed. Mitch, I feel that almost everyone has gotten "hosed" at some point or another with this whole mess. It seems like there is a lot of negativity around this recent decision and not much joy. I am certainly glad things worked out good for you though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 That is unfair to say it is wrong to go out and buy a new set of RA1's if everyone else has the ability to run them. Am I supposed to be punished b/c I didn't stock-pile RA1's during last season, NO! I have a new set of 888's ready to run and will gladly run them if everyone else in my region does the same. On the flip side if the top guys plan to show up the rest of the year with RA1's then I am certainly going to buy myself a set of new RA1's to compete with them. The entire situation is unfortuante b/c my guess is there is only a small % of the racers that this benefits and everyone else is getting hosed. Our third race weekend in TX is in 16 days and we get this news now. 16 days from now in TX every racer was supposed to be on 888's. IMO, this is a huge f-up on NASA's part!! You are right, Micheal ... it's unfair. It's unfair to announce in May of 08 that all of 2009 will be a transition year and then change their mind in October. So don't talk to me about getting hosed. Mitch, I feel that almost everyone has gotten "hosed" at some point or another with this whole mess. It seems like there is a lot of negativity around this recent decision and not much joy. I am certainly glad things worked out good for you though. Michael, you are a nice guy and consider you a friend. So with that, I'll not argue this point any further. I agreed with you its unfair. I greed someone is getting hosed. What we disagree about is your ability to podium versus me flushing $3,000 down the toilet. How about I give you $1,000 and you shut up? Would that make you "feel" better? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls168camaro Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Yes, this is all a mess and hasn't been handled well. The real question to me is what tire are we going to be running next year and thereafter? Is there a chance we could go back to the RA1 next year or will they make a stand and stick to the 888 for 2010? I don't want to go the trouble of changing up my car for the 888 and then next year we go back to the RA1. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllZWay Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Yes, this is all a mess and hasn't been handled well. The real question to me is what tire are we going to be running next year and thereafter? Is there a chance we could go back to the RA1 next year or will they make a stand and stick to the 888 for 2010? I don't want to go the trouble of changing up my car for the 888 and then next year we go back to the RA1. I agree... What is the tire for next year? We don't want to have this same crap next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
camaro_1le Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Yes, this is all a mess and hasn't been handled well. The real question to me is what tire are we going to be running next year and thereafter? Is there a chance we could go back to the RA1 next year or will they make a stand and stick to the 888 for 2010? I don't want to go the trouble of changing up my car for the 888 and then next year we go back to the RA1. I agree... What is the tire for next year? We don't want to have this same crap next year. My guess it will be round and black. But the gov't might nationalize the tire companies and we will only have white walls available. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 Yes, this is all a mess and hasn't been handled well. The real question to me is what tire are we going to be running next year and thereafter? Is there a chance we could go back to the RA1 next year or will they make a stand and stick to the 888 for 2010? I don't want to go the trouble of changing up my car for the 888 and then next year we go back to the RA1. I agree... What is the tire for next year? We don't want to have this same crap next year. That is the Million $$ question. Toyo wants you on their signature brand spankin new 888 but drivers have done nothing but complain about what a crappy tire it is. Toyo's contract is running out at the end of this year. Toyo now has enough time now to figure out how to make a tire for NASA classes (An R8A818 ?? ). Hoosier, Hankook and Nitto would probably jump through hoops of fire to become the next spec tire. Your guess is as good as mine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidney Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 This was just posted over on the AI Nasaforums. I guess all is mute now. Guys, No one told me anything, I'm just learning about this right now as I was out of town. Look, NASA told us the first 2 races are allowed on RA1's. That's it, since no one contacted me about this I will say that that's the CMC rule. Our series does not have mid-year changes and doing this is just not right. Our spec tire is the R888, thats it..we won't run on 2 different tires. So our tire is the R888, dont show up with anything else at the nationals either. This is final. _________________ Tony Guaglione CMC National Director CMC2 #55 03 Mustang GT Again...reposted from AI Nasaforums. Sidney CMC #64 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rustang72 Posted April 3, 2009 Share Posted April 3, 2009 The rest of the conversation around Sydney's quote: Over on the CMC board, Tony Guaglione, National Director of CMC, has declared that this extension does not apply to CMC and that the R888 is the official and only legal tire in the series once the pre-existing two-event extension has expired. Is this is the official, final word for CMC? Matt- No. -JWL Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 Maybe some one should ask me before shooting a post onto another site. The post is not on our site. We are working on this and it will all work out in the end. Thanks, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ls168camaro Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I'm sooo confused. TG-are you saying that is a fake post or something? Did you say we are sticking with the 888? I would like to know as we have our 3rd race in 2 weeks. When you talk to whoever makes these decisions could you please try to find out what tire we are going to be on next year. Is it possible they bring back the RA1 into production and go with that tire instead of the 888? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShadowBolt Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 (edited) I'm sooo confused. TG-are you saying that is a fake post or something? Did you say we are sticking with the 888? I would like to know as we have our 3rd race in 2 weeks. When you talk to whoever makes these decisions could you please try to find out what tire we are going to be on next year. Is it possible they bring back the RA1 into production and go with that tire instead of the 888? BL, I bet they don't have a clue what the tire of choice is for next year. I would be worried sick if I had a set of these POS 888's. This is supposed to be Grassroots racing. We don't need a tire that cost more, does not last as long, and is slower. Why would we want such a tire? If Toyo had made sure the 888 was faster than the RA1 all this other crap wolud not matter. JJ Edited April 4, 2009 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GregFW Posted April 4, 2009 Share Posted April 4, 2009 I like Tony's answer as posted. NASA can permit whatever it wants for what ever reason, and CMC will chart its path within that. So NASA says we "can" continue to use RA-1, and CMC says "not for us." Good. Succinct. To the point. Personally I ran last time on burnt up RA-1s and will be tickled pink to run on new R888s just to have some grip. Even if it's not as good as before... I've heard, anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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