Starting an New Class

[ledfoot2]

FrankBarba- It sounds like the slicks are the only thing that would place you in the X class. If you want to run DOT's. It seems as though Dodge wanted the Comp Coupe to be have Big Boy race tires without running with Big Boy race cars. I have run slicks on my Vette (lowly C5, not even a Z-06) and it was moved up a class with every other thing being the same. If I continued to run them, I would have to run in the X class as well, and I would not complain about it because I made that choice. If your car is positioned where it is not competitive, then make the adjustments and race it where it will be fun to race and be well-matched with the other cars.

 

This is the whole point of widening the scope of this class; so that others can come in and enjoy the FUN.....that is what we are after here isn't it?

[TexaST-1]

I was unaware of the specs for your car. I was specifically stating that the comp coupe is an X car in WCGT form.

 

Your car sounds like it maybe a GPC2 car depending of the power to weight.

 

Slicks will put you in GPCX, just like ledfoot2. He is going to run DOT to comply with the rules and not be bumped up.

 

This will not be spec Vette as in SCCA T1. But tire rules are common among most sanctioning bodies.

 

Give me an example of Corvette upgrades for the weakspots that the viper doesn't have?

 

Can you send me a copy of the build sheet from dodge on the level of comp coupe you have? I need it ot finish writting the rules as it applies to HP to/TQ to Wt.

[FrankBarba]

Your car sounds like it maybe a GPC2 car depending of the power to weight.

 

Slicks will put you in GPCX, just like ledfoot2. He is going to run DOT to comply with the rules and not be bumped up..

 

I'll just continue to run V V 2. This class allows me to stay with the origional configured tire and stay with in rules. We will still most likely still be on the track together. It should make for a good time.

[BradyMorehead]

Frank,

 

I think you might be confused, or I'm wrong. The VVC rules are:

 

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

14.1 Rims / Tires

 

Unless otherwise specified rims (wheels) are unrestricted providing that they do not protrude

outside of the fender when view from the top. C3 Corvettes may have a wheel protrusion of one

inch outside the fender when viewed from above. V1 and V2 cars must use DOT approved tires.V1 cars are restricted to a 315 section width front tire. VX cars may use slicks or DOT approved

tires.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

You seem to be taking this a little personal. Everyone in level 2 & 3 (X) can make adjustments to any weakeness- ie. brakes, suspension. As long as it stays within the rules, that we all have to abide by. It's level and fair; to me it's all the same rules....no matter the car, porsche, vette, viper, etc. As long as the rules are the same...you get to have upgraded brakes as an option, so do I, etc.

It's really just level 1 that would have it's stock advantages. If your auto maker gave you better stock parts vs. mine.

But to argue about what your car can have different from the others in level 2 (like slicks) is unfair - if only vipers can have them.

Then it comes down to, OK open up slicks to everyone in level 2. But doing this would make for an expensive series (not desirable to everyone), and should be reserved for those with High HP like the level X cars, for they really might need it.

There is a place for everyone to compete....there is a place for slicks. And I for one agree let's keep that in level X.

Let's make the driver win, not the tire....we can all mod to the same spec's - HP, suspension, brakes..you'll not be in a losing position with your viper. Unless it's you

[FrankBarba]

Brady, Taking this personal yes in a way. First i have some T1 person from Texas telling me that since i have a Spec Series Viper that i must run X with World Challange Cars, making rules for cars he knows nothing about. If your going to make rules for a class you better know the cars that you want in the class and know what you want to accomplish. If i am confused about the rules you must have a different set than i have.

 

14.0 Wheel Assembly / Brakes

Unless otherwise specified rims (wheels) are restricted providing that they do not protude outside of the fender when view from the top. V V C 1 cars must use DOT approved Tires. V VC 2 and V V C X cars may use slicks or DOT approved tires.

 

Like is said before...If you want to make this an all Corvette Class then go for it. If your trying to get other makes maybe more Vipers & Comp Coupes then you will have to adjust the rules. Personally i don't know many Comp Coupe Owners that own Spec Series Cars (Viper Racing League) that will be willing to carry 2 different sets of tires.

[BradyMorehead]

I don't think he is saying that at all.

 

It sounds like everyone has to play by your rules, and sadly because you don't want to have a second set of tires???

 

The VVC rules I quoted was the 2005 rules. Before you act like no one knows the rules.....look yourself. Here's a link:

 

http://www.nasaproracing.com/rules/Vette-Viper-Challenge.pdf

 

And BTW the new VVC rules says clearly "All Gen. 3 Viper

Competition Coupes shall run in VX."

[FrankBarba]

Where is the damn EDIT buttion? I guess the rules in VVC have changed. Guess i was wrong. But i will still petition to allow Class 2 cars to run Slicks. Have fun. Thats what racing is all about.

[FrankBarba]

And BTW the new VVC rules says clearly "All Gen. 3 Viper

Competition Coupes shall run in VX."

 

Your right. I give up!!!!! White Flags flying.

[BradyMorehead]

Ok, now that we've beaten you into submission. How about (kindly) getting some information to us, so we can add your lovely coupe to this GPC class. With your reasoning, it would fit into GP2 if you drop those slicks. But your right we don't know every detail of every bloody car. We need your help, and the help of others.....you see we aren't being paid by NASA, although we apparently will take the heat if we're wrong.

 

So just get all the information you can together. Email it to me. [email protected]

 

We'll look at all the info and put it into a worthy class (hopefully mine ) and I'll see you at Mid-Ohio!!

[ledfoot2]

Looks everything is cleared up. I think all three of you should chase each other around the track really hard so that my slow car car can pass you when you wear out your tires and brakes.

[TexaST-1]

Frank, I won't take your comments personally. I did read the rules CAREFULLY and was wondering what your Spec Vette comments were about. Since Brady and ledfoot took care of the issues we should be able to agree.

 

As stated earlier, THE rules apply to All Makes and Models. The only cars that will get "Advantages" will be older cars. If you are interested in persuing the comp coupe thing at the level of car you have. This T1 person in Texas is the guy to help you out. If your car specs check out and fit with the philosophy of GPC2 I will place your car at that level. I can modify the rule "All Comp Coupes are in X" if the situation is clear, but again I need info to compile for this class!

 

As an accomplished SCCA racer since 1996 and resposible for many of the rule changes and updates for the C5 there are several good reasons I have left the SCCA in persuit of NASA.

[TexaST-1]

This from MOtor Trend Online for the 2003:

 

Logical, Fernandez says, because there's a ready market. After all, dozens of Viper racers were taking a new $80,000 car and throwing away $30,000 worth of safety and comfort equipment--airbags, climate control, seats, stereo, you name it--and spending thousands more to make their cars raceable. So Fernandez and crew took the platform and basic powertrain of the Viper roadster and built their own racer.

If the standard Viper's 500 horsepower isn't enough, try the Comp Coupe's 520.

 

We're talking an FIA-legal rollcage, onboard telemetry, a sectioned composite body of Kevlar, carbon fiber, and fiberglass, with front splitters and a rear wing developed in a wind tunnel. And did we mention pneumatic jacks, a fire-suppression system, a Racetech seat with a six-point harness, three-piece BBS wheels with Hoosier racing slicks, Brembo brakes with carbon-fiber cooling ducts, Moton adjustable coil-over dampers, a 25-gallon fuel cell, and electronically adjustable brake bias?

 

For $100,000.

 

No, make it up in parts. Though the Viper Competition Coupe should be exceptionally durable, plans are that each will lead a long and happy life and, as such, will require periodic maintenance, body-panel replacement, that sort of thing. It's something the razor-blade companies learned decades ago: We'll give you a free razor--if you keep buying out blades.

advertisement

 

Looking at the photos of the Comp Coupe, we're confident the average Motor Trend reader will have one immediate thought: "How hard would it be to make that thing street legal?" Unfortunately, the answer is, "very hard." Example: What appear to be headlights are decals. This is a racetrack-only car, folks.

Typical race-car stuff out back: chassis-stiffening roll protection and track-spec fuel cell. But don't try to buy one to make it street legal.

 

That's the bad news. The good news: It isn't that much faster than the production Viper roadster. Of all the work Fernandez and his Performance Vehicle Operations guys did on the Competition Coupe, the one area left comparatively alone is the powertrain. The stock SRT-10 Viper has a 505-cubic-inch V-10, with 500 horsepower, 500 lb-ft of torque, and a Tremec six-speed manual transmission. The Competition Coupe ups horsepower to 520, torque to 540 lb-ft, and has the same Tremec tranny. Though there are a few engine tweaks, most of the modest power boost comes from the lower-restriction intake and exhaust.

 

It takes a while to warm up the Competition Coupe's fat Hoosier slicks (P305/35ZR18 front, P345/30ZR18 rear), but once you do, they stick quite well. Like all Vipers before it, this one responds to a rather brutal, off/on switch-like driving style. The tires don't offer much warning before they lose traction, but once they do, the result isn't dramatic. Big four-piston Brembo brakes are astoundingly capable and fade-free, lap after hard lap.

 

New Viper design sure looks good as a coupe. Wonder how long it'll take to get street-version into production?

 

The engine's monstrous torque makes the Competition Coupe easy to drive fast. Exit a corner one gear too high, and the massive V-10 shrugs it off and goes. Redline is around 6100 rpm, with about 5400 rpm a comfortable shift point. The biggest surprise is that, after driving the stock roadster and the Comp Coupe, you get the feeling that, if it had slick tires, the stock Viper might be only a couple seconds slower than the Coupe on a road course. That a street-legal car could feel so much like a full-on racer speaks to the extreme nature of the production Viper.

 

Dodge's Performance Vehicle Operations plans on producing about 60 Competition Coupes this year and at least that many next year. They'll build as many as they can sell.

 

2003 Dodge Viper Comp Coupe

 

Price range $100,000- $125,000

Vehicle layout Front engine, rwd, 0-door, 1-pass

Engine 8.3L/520-hp V-10, OHV, 2 valves/cyl

0-60 mph, sec 3.8 (mfr est)

On sale in U.S. Currently

 

The car is designed to compete in the Skip Thomas Viper Racing League, as well as the Grand American Cup's Grand Sports class--against the Chevrolet Corvette and Porsche 911--and in the Speedvision World Challenge.

 

Gentlemen, your razor is ready.

[ryan0]

Maybe its the driver

[TexaST-1]

Frank is on board for the DOTs!

[Z06RACER]

In the SE nobody showed up in VVC. So I ran SU w/a T1 vette. This year I will probably run SU again w/ a more modified vette. If I go to the Nationals at MO can I run in your new class if I qualify in SU???

[TexaST-1]

Bob, that is the main reason I wanted to start new class. No one ever shows up for VVC in Texas and we have 160 cars at events.

 

The are always several cars of various levels of preparation but none quite conforming to any one set of rules.

 

I plan for us to all have success around the nation with this new group.

 

I am not sure how qualifing for the National Event will go, but I would assume you would need to qualify in the class you plan to compete in at Mid-O.

 

The rules should be out very soon. Follow the current VVC rules to prep your Vette or send me an email and I will help you pick your level.

[TexaST-1]

Source: Ferrari

 

The 360 Modena Challenge is the racing version of the 360 Modena. It was specially designed for the customer who wants to race in the Ferrari Challenge Trofeo Pirelli, an international single marque racing series. The 360 Modena Challenge offers a significant improvement in racing equipment for customers who wish to take a Ferrari to the track and engage in serious competition.

 

The 360 Modena Challenge has sophisticated features including: The F1-gearbox, the only transmission offered; reduced dry weight of 2579 lbs, 331 lbs less than the 355

Challenge car it replaced, achieved largely through the extensive use of aluminum as in the standard car; a fuel tank designed in accordance with FIA-standards, with a capacity of 26.4 gallons and two filler pipes for fast fuelling; an engine is identical to that of the road-going 360 Modena - a 3.6 litre 90º 3.6 liter V8 with maximum power of 400bhp; special Brembo brakes; BBS wheel rims with P Zero slick Pirelli tires; a special racing seat with a six-point harness; an FIA roll-cage; an automatic fire extinguisher; and a Magneti Marelli digital instrument panel with data capture system.

 

The interior is characterised by the simplicity typical of motor racing equipment: a three-spoke sports steering wheel and light black material for the central instrument panel, and internal door trims as well as the dashboard and the restricted material covering on the control panel housing positioned on the back of the seat.

Edited January 10, 2006 by Guest

[TexaST-1]

Looks like a GPC-2 car out of the Box!

[Jaymz]

I have been riding the VVC bandwagon for the last two years, running in 90% of the races. I probably have scored more VVC points than anyone in this discussion. I assume that I will be racing GPC this year.

 

There is a problem with the VVC class layout and this new class has inherited the problem. Time will tell if I am right or wrong but here it goes anyway.

 

I believe that there should only be two classes. GPC and GPCx. Keep the T1 and other stock type cars in one class and let the modified cars run in another class. This is how American Iron work and it works great. I seriously doubt that GPCx will have thay many World Challenge cars in it.

 

In 2004 I ran in VVC1 in a slightly modified T1 car. In 2005 I ran in VVCx in a highly modified car. It's not nearly as fast as a WC car but it was fast enough on occasion.

[TexaST-1]

Who's T1 car was it or who built it?

 

You are right about the most finishes in VVC. I bet I have more finished in different NASA run groups. I always ran where the competion was that weekend. That is meant as a tease so don't take it anyother way.

 

You have point, but our region and a couple of others do have WC cars showing up in their areas. Also part of the incorporation of these rules is based on the SCCA's T1 class and WC Class cars.

 

I can speak for myself and a few others on our board that I don't personally want to run my GPC-2 level car against Lou's WC C6 this season. Yea, I know it is not for points with him but it it the pricipal.

 

Kevin Mixon

#51 T1 SCCA 1999-2005

GPC-2 2006-

[Jaymz]

I have Ron Grimm's old T1 car. It is nothing like when I bought it though except for the short block and the paint and that it getting changed this weekend as I am getting a new paint job done.

 

Trust me I don't want to race against Lou in his WC car.. Well maybe I do.. I am sure it will be a blast. Anyway I think it will just spread out the classes to thin.

 

Think of it this way. Most of the Vettes on here will be racing with a heads and cam package, interior will be stripped out. They probably will weigh 3200 with the driver. These cars should make over 450 at the wheels with the heads and cam which will put them in the X class. I figured that 438 at the wheels on a 3200 lb car wdriver will be the max limit for GPC2. Maybe adjust the GPC2 class to make the power level more or set a minumun weight to allow most of the cars to run in group2 and the WC type cars to run in x.

 

 

No offense taken on the racing where the competition is. I have fun racing other guys in AIX all of the time. We aren't in the same class but we have a blast chasing each other down.

[TexaST-1]

Good point. This is the first go around for these rules. Maybe after the class developes better over-all we can have that type of level.

 

My argument against that at this time is. I want the T1 cars to feel like they have a good opportunity to race and win. Secondly we are not only talking about Corvettes and Vipers. Some of the marques will only ever be able to make the kind of power to compete in level 1. Some of the Porsches and Ferraris are maxed out power to weight wise now.

[Jaymz]

I agree with you that level 1 is fine. I think that level two is the problem as most of the level 2 cars will be running with lighter cars and more power. That just kills the power to weight ratio.

[Jaymz]

I want to post to ask everyone, how many think they will be in GPC2 vs GPCx. If you are in GPC2 will you post your approx race weight with driver and approx RWHP. If we do this we might have some numbers so see how cars will fall in each class.

[TexaST-1]

The point is the most populated classes will be 1 and 2. These will not be spread to thin because of X. THE threat of 600 HP 2,500 lbs cars hanging out in X should also be a deturant for guys to keep their car preparation at 2 or 1.

 

I'll race anyone anytime, but I do like to think I have a shot at winning.

 

Side note: SCCA Pro is broke and costs the Club $250,000+ dollars a year to keep alive. What happens when they sell it off? Anyone remeber Trans Am?...

 

Second side note: This is a mandatory dyno sheet class. No Dyno sheet goto X. Gives guys a chance to still race and comply for the next race.

 

Third side note: 3280lbs at 445RWHP 7.37:1 All to be finalized after final car prep is done and certified.