Jump to content
ColtSmoke

Break package #'s

Recommended Posts

mitchntx1548534714
So StopTech talks about a 4 piston brake package for CMC2 for $2,195 in the current edition of Grassroots Motorsports.....I'm seeing cars listed for that price! Did they mean to say AI?

 

David DeJarnette #678 Mid-Atlantic

 

 

 

People bitch about wings in CMC but $2000.00 brake systems are good for the series.

If I was in charge neither would be allowed (and my car has a wing).

 

JJ

 

Most the directors have expensive brakes (imagine that ) so they are here to stay.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ColtSmoke
Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine...

 

BRAKES are what you need to safely convert your race car's kinetic energy into heat.

BREAKS is what your car does when it hits a concrete barrier.

 

This is a killer post. Made me lol onto the floor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
85t5mcss
Sorry, this is a pet peeve of mine...

 

BRAKES are what you need to safely convert your race car's kinetic energy into heat.

BREAKS is what your car does when it hits a concrete barrier.

 

This is a killer post. Made me lol onto the floor.

I wanted to say something but havent been around long enough. Didnt know how it would be taken. Similar to motor vs. engine. Pet peeves indeed.

 

And $2000 brake kits belong in AI, not CMC. My opinion of course since I am trying to build the on a budget and put money into seat time instead.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TurboShortBus

$2000 break kits will brake the bank. nyuk nyuk nyuk...

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mitchntx1548534714

It appears the big brake decision has divided the group into the "haves" and "have nots".

 

So much for one big, happy family

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
nape1548534725

I don't like that brake kits that cost that much are allowed in AI let alone CMC, but some people think they need that to win. Want a good chuckle? Look at the $4000+ AI kits.

 

I put my 4-piston Wilwood setup together for $700 and it saved me that much in consumables last year vs. LS1 brakes. I never had a problem with LS1 brakes even in AI, but I was burning a $220 set of pads down in two events.

 

Just remember to laugh when you out brake the guy who spent your year's racing budget on his front brake kit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mitchntx1548534714

Just remember to laugh when you out brake the guy who spent your year's racing budget on his front brake kit.

 

Just remember, your "out braking" is the next guy's "dive bombing".

 

IRBs will be busy ...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
MHISSTC
It appears the big brake decision has divided the group into the "haves" and "have nots".

 

Maybe we should keep our front single piston calipers, 11" rotors, and rear drums in protest.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
mitchntx1548534714

That would be a have not-not?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
koserv

+1 for TJ's budget racer brake package. $680 all up including a set of pads. I was due for calapers/rotors/lines/pads anyway, and if you include pad costs, my new 4-pot Wilwood package was a cheaper than rebuilding my LS package. We'll see how it works, but after spending a few laps in the SuperMaroChicken this last fall, I can't wait...

 

FYI, pretty much every "dealer" tells me I'm going to be really unhappy because I didn't spend $2,000 plus on their stuff. We'll see....

 

EDIT...Oh, and by the way, add another vote for ditching the wings, brakes, etc. Ran all last year in -2 in CMC trim with just a new plate and did OK. And, after this winter, it looks like I'm the poster boy for "if it's in the rules, they will come"...so let's just not put any more check book draining crap in the rules...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HMark
+1 for TJ's budget racer brake package. $680 all up including a set of pads. I was due for calapers/rotors/lines/pads anyway, and if you include pad costs, my new 4-pot Wilwood package was a cheaper than rebuilding my LS package. We'll see how it works, but after spending a few laps in the SuperMaroChicken this last fall, I can't wait...

 

FYI, pretty much every "dealer" tells me I'm going to be really unhappy because I didn't spend $2,000 plus on their stuff. We'll see....

 

EDIT...Oh, and by the way, add another vote for ditching the wings, brakes, etc. Ran all last year in -2 in CMC trim with just a new plate and did OK. And, after this winter, it looks like I'm the poster boy for "if it's in the rules, they will come"...so let's just not put any more check book draining crap in the rules...

 

Yup, the Wilwood setup is the way to go on the cheap. I'm putting together a setup for SN95 spindled mustangs that will be $650 - $700. I'm running the experimental brackets at Infineon on the 19th and 20th. If all goes well they will be available the 21st. There will also be an upgrade path to full floater rotors and such, so you won't have to rebuy anything to upgrade.

 

-Don

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HMark

I know some of the vendors that service CMC/AI are also Wilwood distributors, if any of them want to bundle the calipers and pads that would be awesome. BTW the brackets also work for the 6 pot Wilwood GT calipers for the AI crew. They could put a set together for $900.

 

-Don

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TurboShortBus
Yup, the Wilwood setup is the way to go on the cheap.

Which style of pads do those calipers take, and which model of Wilwoods are they? I'm all for reducing costs on consumables. And, if they can be used with either off-the-shelf parts store rotors or high-buck 2-piece rotors with no other changes, then they are even better.

 

$2,000 comes damn close to buying a roll cage these days, depending on how hungry your builder is (not counting the $1,000 bolt-in ones). It will also buy a Mustang or Camaro on Craigslist for a starter CMC car. It also makes 2 mortgage payments for some of us (YMMV, depending on which side of 2005 your bought your house). But, for front brake calipers and rotors? Not terribly realistic these days...

 

Of course, there is no requirement to buy $2,000 front brake kits.

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HMark

In thinking about it, I would probably not include pads, Hawk, Carbotech, Raybestos, PFC, and Wilwood all make pads. They are about $125 so it would be that much cheaper, and you can get whatever brand you prefer. The backing plate is the '7420' in the 0.800" thick pad. (yes the pads are almost an inch thick each)

 

Calipers:

1207429R/L Superlite calipers $160ea.

 

Bracket Kit:

2 Brackets, Caliper fasteners, Ti pad heatshields -3 AN adapters, maybe new brake lines - still working it out. - $200

 

Rotors would be 13" cobra rotors, sourced locally.

 

 

Wil1.jpg

 

 

-Don

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TurboShortBus

I'm not in the mood to continue rebuilding my fence today.

 

FWIW:

 

Wilwood part numbers 120-7429R and 120-7429L do not come up on Wilwood's site.

 

Wilwood part number 120-7429R is listed as "not available" on Summit Racing's site. However, Summit suggests Wilwood part number 120-11136 as the substitute part.

 

Wilwood part number 120-7429L is available on Summit's site. They probably haven't exhausted their stock yet.

 

Wilwood part number 120-11136 is not side-specific, so it is likely the new replacement for the other R and L part numbers. More information, including piston diameters and compatible rotor thicknesses (1.19" - 1.38"...it looks like Wilwood part number 120-11135 is identical and works with 1.10" thick rotors):

http://www.wilwood.com/Search/PartNoSearch.aspx?itemno=11136

http://www.wilwood.com/PDF/Flyers/fl225.pdf

 

Wilwood part number 120-11136 has internal fluid crossovers, rather than external tubes on the older R and L part numbers.

 

Photo of part number 120-11136 from Wilwood:

Forged_Superlite_Internal-lg.jpg

 

By comparison, Hawk pads for 2000 Cobra R Brembo calipers with OEM Cobra 1.125" thick rotors are 0.665" thick (based on the last 3 digits of the part number) and sell for north of $200/axle set for the more aggressive compounds that we would use.

 

The Wilwood part number 120-11136 caliper body extends 2.15" out past the face of the rotor; check the "pad" on the back of your wheels for clearance. I'll try to measure my Cobra R Brembo calipers for comparison, although I am limited to wheels with tall "pads" (1995 Cobra R 17", 1998 Cobra 17", 2000 Cobra R 18", 2003-04 Cobra 17").

 

Let's see:

1. Calipers for $150 each

2. Reasonably priced adapter brackets

3. Nearly half-price for pads, with more meat on them

4. Calipers work with $30 el cheapo rotors or $250 high-buck rotors; spend to taste

 

Do I have this right? If so, then I hope these adapter brackets work well on the 19th-20th.

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
ShadowBolt

Your right Mark. If this is correct it changes everything.

JJ

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Glenn

HMark - I would like to see a similar kit for the 4th gens.

I'm not a Wilwood fan. A bracket for a Stop Tech or PF caliper that allows the use of a OEM C5/C6 rotor.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
KiMifan

I've heard mixed reviews on the Wilwood S/L calipers. The price is certainly tempting, but have they held up to multi-season road racing use on 3000-plus pound cars?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CMC#11

You say to use them with a local 13" Cobra rotor. What if you are cracking these same rotors in 3 events with regular 2-piston calipers?

 

Is anyone else having a rotor cracking problem with their Mustangs? There are three of us (myself, Jerry, and Jeremy) that have cracked a shit ton of rotors in the last year and they were all directional rotors.

 

I'm not trying to bash any ideas but I have not had good luck w/ regular rotors.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TurboShortBus
You say to use them with a local 13" Cobra rotor. What if you are cracking these same rotors in 3 events with regular 2-piston calipers?

 

Is anyone else having a rotor cracking problem with their Mustangs? There are three of us (myself, Jerry, and Jeremy) that have cracked a shit ton of rotors in the last year and they were all directional rotors.

 

I'm not trying to bash any ideas but I have not had good luck w/ regular rotors.

I use 13" OEM Cobra-spec rotors, made by Bendix in Canada and purchased at Advance Auto Parts on closeout for $30 each (I bought all 10 that were left in the warehouse). I ran the first pair of rotors for about 5 or 6 weekends (or about 3 sets of pads) before I relegated them to "bedded spares duty" and put new rotors on during a pad change, but knock on wood...no cracking yet.

 

I am using the 2000 Cobra R Brembo calipers with Carbotech XP-10 pads and 3" brake ducts with the Quantum spindle mounts (not the best, but cheap). As for the car, I am basically making CMC power with CMC2 brakes and non-CMC tires.

 

In general, I recommend going out of your way to find non-Chinese rotors.

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CF03GT

Michael- Count me in too.. Running stock PBR Cobra calipers and cracking local 13" rotors every TWO weekends on my Mustang. Hoping to re-coup some rotor $ from my local scrap yard, from my stockpile of cracked rotors..

 

And just my $.02 on the $2200 "CMC2" brake packages..

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
HMark

Mark-

 

You are correct, Wilwood has moved to the internal passage design and the P/N's you posted are correct.

 

Also the Afco F88 caliper will also work (I don't have one to fit check yet), they are about the same price, but from what I've seen a little better quality, and the same pad.

 

http://www.afcoracing.com/brakes_a_calipers.html

 

As with cracking the 13" rotors, do you have good air ducting to them? I cracked a few pretty fast and then reworked my ducts and they last 3-4 weekends. I'm also working on a better floating rotor, but that will be later.

 

Glenn - I don't do 4th gens. JK, I would be happy to look at what you want after this kit gets launched.

 

-Don

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TurboShortBus

For $150 per Wilwood caliper, you can afford to keep 1 or 2 spares on hand, "just in case" something gets out of hand.

 

Hell, for $150 each, you could consider running them for a season, throwing them on eBay or Craigslist for $50 each to a circle-track guy, and buying a whole new pair if you don't feel like rebuilding them.

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
CF03GT

Don- Yes, all the normal/thorough steps were taken (cooling ducts to the center of the hat avoiding surface of the rotors, heat cycled the rotors, ect.). I think it's just a function of the poor quality imported metals more than anything else.

I still do use a set of those run of the mill 13" rotors as back-up (although they're a "lifetime replacement" now.. my local auto parts guys is cool). And use a primary set of the Brembo rotors (have had better results with the Brembo's).

 

 

-Chris

CMC2 #14

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
TurboShortBus

FWIW, a year or so ago, my buddy's AI Mustang was having big cracking problems with the Baer 2-piece rotors. By big problems, I mean a new one cracked on its first day on the car after 1 or 2 sessions after replacing older, cracked ones. He now runs $30 NAPA white-box rotors.

 

Mark

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.


×
×
  • Create New...