2023 Proposed ST Rules Revisions--Comment Period through 11-20-22

[Greg G.]

Hi Folks,

Thanks to everyone for all of their rules revisions suggestions throughout the year.  As you might imagine, we often get the exact opposite requests from different competitors at the same time.  For example, we got requests to significantly increase the cable throttle body Mod Factor, and other requests to delete it completely.  We have requests for more mods to be assessed, and other requests to get rid of assessments and have more open rules.  So, there will NEVER be a situation where whatever we decide (whether that decision is to make a change or not) will result in 100% competitor satisfaction.   The following are what the National Officials have decided are changes that we believe will be beneficial to the series.  We are posting them here so you get a last chance at commenting and making any suggestions that we may agree would be helpful, as these are not getting published until next week.  There is no real reason to re-post "arguments" that you or someone else has already made on the Forums or the ST and TT Facebook groups--they have already been taken into account, with many hours of debate, even if you don't like the results.  This is really more for you to have the opportunity to help shape the final wording or find something that is missed or may not work for some reason.  Please be civil and constructive.

 

ST Rules Revisions 2023 Proposals for Comments

 

ST1-4 Rules

4.2 Super Touring (ST1, ST2, ST3, ST4)

Any four-wheel, fendered/closed-wheel, internal combustion engine vehicle that passes NASA safety technical inspection can be used to compete in Super Touring provided it is in compliance with the modification limitations in section 6 of these rules.  Hybrids must be approved by the National ST Director.  The Scalar Performance SCR1 electric touring car is approved for use in NASA Super Touring in 2023 (further classing information is pending).

-----------------------------------------------

6.4.3 ST4 Anti-Lock Braking Systems (ABS)

Anti-lock braking systems may only be OEM and offered specifically for the car model (any trim model or generation) as a factory option.  No systems offered for a different car model or aftermarket systems are permitted, with the exception that the BMW E46 MK60 ABS (including Teves/ATE standalone) may be used on any vehicle with the BMW original or CSL reflash programming.  No motorsports or custom programming of the MK60 or any other ABS is permitted in ST4 (effective February 1, 2023).  All systems must have a connection accessible to an OBDII code reader.

6.4.2 ST4 Aerodynamic Modification Restrictions and Limitations

If not using the BTM Aero Modification Factor, aerodynamic parts/devices/aides shall be limited in ST4 to the following:

3b) With the assessed Modification Factor in section 6.5–Single flat, horizontal front splitter (0.750” (¾ inch) max. thickness) that protrudes no greater than 6.0” from where it intersects with the fascia or air dam.  Along the entire splitter, there must be at least 1.0” of fascia or air dam material above/superior to where the splitter intersects the fascia/air dam, including at any air intake region.  The splitter/undertray may extend rearward no further than the driver compartment front bulkhead/firewall.

7) With the assessed Modification Factor in section 6.5 - Fender venting and non-OEM wide body fenders to the extent permitted in section 6.2.1.3.

8.) With the assessed Modification Factor in section 6.5 - Two (2) front bumper canards/ dive planes on each side. 

9) With the assessed Modification Factor in section 6.5 - Non-OEM rear diffuser rearward of the centerline of the rear wheels and extending no further behind the vehicle than 6.0” from the intersection with the rear bumper.

--------------------------------------------

6.4.4 ST4 Non-OEM Front Sub-frame Swaps

Front non-OEM and tubular sub-frame swaps that mount to OEM mounting locations, for the purpose of facilitating a motor swap, will be evaluated by the National Director on a case-by-case basis requiring proof of OEM suspension geometry and with a -0.4 Modification Factor assessment.

----------------------------------------------------------

6.5.2  Modification Factors

Power:             Manually, mechanically actuated throttle body (no electronic servo)    = +0.3
                                    (Does not apply to forced induction vehicles)

 

Tire Size:       DOT-approved:

                        NASA Section Width 266mm or smaller                                                  = +0.6

                        NASA Section Width 267mm to 282mm                                                  = +0.3

                        Tire size printed greater than 315 (ST2, ST3 Only)                           = -0.3

                       

                        Non-DOT-approved:                                   

                        Size 9.5”/241mm/24cm or smaller                                                            = +0.6

                        Size 10.5”/270mm/27cm  to 9.6”/242mm/25cm                                       = +0.3

                        Size greater than 11.8”/300mm/30cm (ST2, ST3 Only)                     = -0.3  

Production Vehicle Body Modifications:

ST4 Only:  

    “3b)” 4 to 6 inch front splitter     and/or extended undertray                     = -0.3

    Fender venting and/or wide body fenders                                                  = -0.3

    Up to two front bumper canards/ dive planes on each side                        = -0.3

                            Non-OEM rear diffuser                                                                              = -0.3

 

Drivetrain:       ST4: RWD with solid rear axle                                                                                           = +0.3

-----------------------------------------------------------

6.5.3  Non-Production Vehicles Approved for “Production” Vehicle Status

BMW M2-CS Racing (ST1, ST2 & ST3 only)(may have additional aero mods)        = -0.0

----------------------------------------------------------

9.2 Super Touring Specified Windshield Banner and Class Designation Decals

At the NASA Championships event, all Super Touring vehicles must display the Super Touring windshield banner with class designation, along with the specified class designation decals on each side and the rear of the vehicle.

 

 

-------------------------------------------------

 

 

ST5 and ST6 Rules:

4.     Eligible Manufacturers/Models/Configurations

Super Touring 5 (ST5) = “Adjusted Wt/HP Ratio” equal to, or greater than, 14.50:1

---------------------------------------------

6.5.2  Modification Factors

Power:             Manually, mechanically actuated throttle body (no electronic servo)    = +0.3
                                    (Does not apply to forced induction vehicles)

Suspension:      Suspension design utilizing upper “A-arm” or “wishbone type control arms  = -0.5

                                   (front and/or rear)                       

Drivetrain:       RWD with solid rear axle                                                                                = +0.3

-------------------------------------------------

9.2 Super Touring Specified Windshield Banner and Class Designation Decals

At the NASA Championships event, all Super Touring vehicles must display the Super Touring windshield banner with class designation, along with the specified class designation decals on each side and the rear of the vehicle

 

 

 

 

I just added this to the last post:

Folks, here is the update on the decisions that were made after your comments that differ from the original post above.  We appreciated most of your comments.  Some of FB were less than appreciated ?.   These will be incorporated into the '23 rules.

I'm busy working on the editing to get the rules published, so I don't have time to update the original post above now, but here are the highlights of the final decisions that differ from the above.

All classes:
"Roll cage tubing may pass through the floor pan for purposes of chassis stiffening and/ or to tie into the sub-frame."
Removal of the Appendix -0.2 Mod Factor for Mustangs and BMW's for subframe connection through the floor.

 

Solid rear axle request for ST1-4----No changes, but new rule for ST1:

6.2.1.1c    For ST1, aftermarket tubular sub-frames that utilize the OEM mounting points are permitted (may also use additional non-OEM mounting points).

 

ST5/6 - Control Arm rule deleted and substituted with:

One means of aftermarket camber adjustment per wheel by replacement of a single suspension component (in addition to camber plates) is permitted without a Modification Factor. Rear suspension link replacement or modification for toe adjustment is permitted without a Modification Factor.   Any additional non-OEM or modified control arms or links beyond the above shall be assessed a Modification factor.

 

ST6 - Request for Aero with Mod Factors:

Front Air Dam =   -1.0

 

4" Front Splitter =   -1.0

 

 

MK60e1 in ST4?

MK60e1 is permitted, again with no motorsports flash

 

 

Some non-Production vehicles approved for Production use:

BMW M235 Cup (ST1-3)  -0.0 for non-Production

 

981 Cayman Clubsport  (GT4 cars) (ST1 & 2)  -0.0

 

718 Cayman Clubsport  (GT4 cars) (ST1)  -0.0       

 

Porsche 991 GT3 Cup (ST1 only) (may have additional Aero mods) = -0.0    This one was changed

 

 

And last but not least at all:

Tire Size:       DOT-approved:

                        NASA Section Width 266mm or smaller                                                  = +0.6

                        NASA Section Width 267mm to 282mm                                                  = +0.3

                        Tire size printed greater than 315 (ST2, ST3 Only)                                   = -0.3
                          (Does not apply to vehicles weighing over 3750 lbs)
                             

                       

                        Non-DOT-approved:                                   

                        Size 9.5”/241mm/24cm or smaller                                                            = +0.6

                        Size 10.5”/270mm/27cm  to 9.6”/242mm/25cm                                       = +0.3

                        Size greater than 11.8”/300mm/30cm (ST2, ST3 Only)                            = -0.3  
                          (Does not apply to vehicles weighing over 3750 lbs)

Yes, we reviewed this one in depth, including an analysis of the number of current NASA ST2/TT2 and ST3/TT3 drivers on tires greater than 315's and their weights.  We also reviewed the specs on the actual sizes of the 325's and non-DOT tires bigger than 300, that for the most part, showed them to be close to the 335's/345's in actual width.

 

ST5/6:

"One means of aftermarket camber adjustability per wheel by replacement of a single suspension component not requiring modifications to the spindle or mounting points (in addition to camber plates) is permitted without a Modification Factor. Rear suspension link replacement or modification for toe adjustment is permitted without a Modification Factor.   Any additional non-OEM or modified control arms or links beyond the above shall be assessed a Modification factor."

 

Edited November 24, 2022 by Greg G.

[Grant Ellis]

So this would apply to TT’s also?

[kartermdb]

What is the reasoning behind using a 305 printed tire size instead of sticking with the nasa section width?

Edited November 17, 2022 by kartermdb
typo

[Greg G.]

4 minutes ago, kartermdb said:

What is the reasoning behind using a 305 printed tire size instead of sticking with the nasa section width?

We don't have a NSW tool that large (yet), and need time to do the research and testing to make one.  We have found in the past that most of the issue with "cheater" tire sizes is in the smaller tires.  But, we do plan on coming up with a tool that would prohibit larger than at 305 on standard size wheel.

[Greg G.]

14 minutes ago, Grant Ellis said:

So this would apply to TT’s also?

Yes, all TT classing is based on ST rules still.

[Tykrane30]

Question here
"Tire size printed greater than 305 (ST2, ST3 Only)                                    = -0.3"

Any particular reason to cut this limit to 305? Any data behind it?
That width makes this rule difficult to maximize a zero point section width tire in all common wheel sizes run in ST2/3.
Most ST2/3 competitors are probably running an 18" wheel (there might be some on 17s and 19s).

Most of the common tire manufacturers Hoosier, Yokohama, Goodyear, Hankook don't make a 305R18 tire. Toyo is the only brand that makes a 305R18. So there are no zero point tires that provide an ability to maximize this zero point section width rule for many ST2/3 competitors
Does a 315 section width limit not make more sense since it is widely available throughout manufacturer brands?

[Brian Clarke]

Has any ST2 driver used less then 315 in competition in the rear?  It's all camaro's and corvettes or big tire BMWs in our area.  They don't make a 305 in anything good 18" tbh.  

The hit at ST2 is too much, at that power level, if it doesn't say 315/335 in the rear I'd be wicked suprised.

[nosliw75]

So I have a question as to why there is a new tire modifier surrounding anything over a 305 taking a -.3 modifier? With tire prices hiking and size selection already being slim, this is only going to make getting tires for the season that much more difficult. I feel like these rules are changing to try and force people to a Toyo tire.

 

Example being:

In an 18" wheel (one of the most popular sized wheels) Toyo offers a 295, 305, and 315 whereas Hoosier only offers a 295 or a 315. I understand that Toyo is the NASA tire sponsor and in fixed tire classes forcing people to a Toyo tire makes sense from a marketing perspective. But in open tire classes like ST they are consistently slower than other DOT brands such as Hoosier. When prices were significantly different running a Toyo could've made sense from a budget standpoint. I feel like this modifier hurts the spirit of ST where people have liberty to build their cars to a much more flexible set of rules. 

 

I'm an engineer by trade, so if you can show me some data that supports this -.3 modifier I'll shut up. But until then, this feels like a business play to me and I personally disagree with it. 

[the328]

Don't A-arm cars already hold the majority of lap records in TT5? SE, MA, GL records are easy to look up... Can we not accept that some platforms work better at some tracks than others, or must the rules be in such a way that the S2k platform can hold all lap records? I guess those who cry loudest win.

Edited November 17, 2022 by the328
Clarify TT5 records

[HLF]

ST/TT4 - Jus tot clarify my understanding: if I are not taking the OEM aero mod because I have the current spec TT4 splitter, and I add canards, do I take an additional -.3 mod? 

[ChuggLifeRacing]

For Nasa Champs, do we expect a Spec R7 tire for ST4 like it was done for 2022? 

[Scott B.]

I've got a C5 Corvette that can run ST2/ST3.

I run ST3 at 3200lbs on 315s at 10.0:1, or at 3301 on 315s at 9.9:1.

I tried ST3 at 3301lbs on 275s at 9.6:1 and it wasn't as effective.

In ST3 I believe my car is currently competitive with E46M3s when they run 275s at 9.7:1

I believe it is not as competitive as the 6th Gen Camaros running 315/335 at 9.7:1

This penalty would make me 10.3:1, which makes me less competitive with E46M3s and still less competitive with Camaros.

I don't believe this penalty is balancing the scales properly, and I think the real thing that needs to be addressed is analog cars vs. current gen cars. 

Old vs new ABS, TC, and E-diffs are a big difference.  And unless we address this, there is no point in trying to be competitive in an older car.  

 

Anyway, I'd prefer to see the proposed tire penalty amended to:

ST2:  no penalty

ST3:  size greater than 315 = -0.3 

[surlynkid]

A 2010 Porsche GT3 stock tire sizes are 305 rear and 235 front.  The GT3RS are 325 rear and 245 front.  The car does not dominate TT2 even at 8.000.  I’m not stuffing a massively bigger tire on the car versus OEM.  I’m not even going to argue the proposed rule as it clearly is SWAG with a shotgun approach answer.  If the rule goes through, I will be done driving and instructing for NASA.  It’s just that simple.  Considering how many emails I get begging for instructors, I’ll just play elsewhere.  We are all backyard enthusiasts.  We can’t keep changing to meet someone’s whim.  

[nosliw75]

3 minutes ago, Scott B. said:

I've got a C5 Corvette that can run ST2/ST3.

I run ST3 at 3200lbs on 315s at 10.0:1, or at 3301 on 315s at 9.9:1.

I tried ST3 at 3301lbs on 275s at 9.6:1 and it wasn't as effective.

In ST3 I believe my car is currently competitive with E46M3s when they run 275s at 9.7:1

I believe it is not as competitive as the 6th Gen Camaros running 315/335 at 9.7:1

This penalty would make me 10.3:1, which makes me less competitive with E46M3s and still less competitive with Camaros.

I don't believe this penalty is balancing the scales properly, and I think the real thing that needs to be addressed is analog cars vs. current gen cars. 

Old vs new ABS, TC, and E-diffs are a big difference.  And unless we address this, there is no point in trying to be competitive in an older car.  

 

Anyway, I'd prefer to see the proposed tire penalty amended to:

ST2:  no penalty

ST3:  size greater than 315 = -0.3 

Well said, Scott B! This is the data driven discussion I referred to in my post above. 

[Emag]

2 minutes ago, nosliw75 said:

Well said, Scott B! This is the data driven discussion I referred to in my post above. 

Agreed with Scott.

The torque numbers and weight modifier is more of an influence than tire size in ST3 and ST2, with some track dependance. 

If we look at 2021 Daytona Nationals ST3 was very equal with various, almost opposite configurations.  I remember the group leader told me in the dyno line that the data traces were almost identical among the top finishers. 

[rsotak]

So for ST4 tire width still based on weight or can any weight car run the 275mm as long as they take the -0.3 penalty?

[Bryan Heitman]

M2 CS racing without modifier and can run non-DOT. Why the disparity in treatment between the mx5 cup car and the m2 cs racing? Arguably the CS racing is more exotic race car than the mx5 and double the price.

[Ale Sensoli]

I will talk about tt2 305mm rule. 

The availability of this size is almost zero. Except for toyo (which no one uses with those heavy cars) and 3R (fast but dangerous when cold and available only in 19")

The closest DOT option is 295. 

Most of the tt2 cars are heavy cars. 

I fear that to be able to compete many will.switch to 295.  

And i personally think with cars weighting >3300lbs up to 3900 and going up to 170mph this is not only not beneficial but also incredibly dangerous. 

PROPOSAL

greater than 315mm should be penalized. 

(And mainly based on tires avalibility and safety)

Alessandro

 

 

Edited November 17, 2022 by Ale Sensoli

[skanev]

1 hour ago, Greg G. said:

    Fender venting and wide body fenders                                                      = -0.3

Is the "and" here intentional? Does the mod factor only apply to fenders that are both vented and "wide body"? I'm assuming you meant an "or".

 

Personally, I do think that wide, non-vented fenders shouldn't carry the mod factor -- they're just bringing narrower-chassis cars to parity with what others (like an E46 M3) have OEM. But that's been discussed, and I doubt is the intent of the rule.

 

Svilen Kanev, #122 ST4 NorCal (with "wide body" fenders)

Edited November 17, 2022 by skanev

[daytonars4]

@Greg G. I’m curious what data was used to determine that an M2CS factory car should not even get the .2 mod. In Midatlantic we probably have one of the most developed M2’s in the country. The racing has seemed extremely balanced with the e46’s with them having a very mild acceleration advantage. The M2 has a top 3 laptime of the season at VIR, only the Camaro’s have been faster. So what dictated that the second fastest car in the field should reduce weight for 2023? I don’t have an opinion either way, just curious what thought process went into this. A bone stock M2 isn’t very fast, so I would agree there no mod is needed. But an M2 with upgraded suspension and aero doesn’t need any help from the 2022 version of rules. 
 

Also not sure if it’s being noticed, but a -.3 mod for over 305mm is really only -.1 or -.2. The added weight just forces anyone into the next tier of weight mod for a weight bonus of .1 or .2 depending. Which is why overall it’s weird to be giving cars bonuses if they are on 335 and 345mm tires.  

[CTSVR]

I’m personally a fan of the new tire mod factor in ST3, as it helps me out, however in ST2 I don’t see it really being beneficial, unless the goal is to slow down ST2, which I could understand. 
 

I also don’t understand the M2-CS.R 0.0 mod factor, as they’ve been extremely competitive in Mid-Atlantic with the -0.2. I felt that adjustment was unnecessary. 

[Eric Jensen]

20 minutes ago, rsotak said:

So for ST4 tire width still based on weight or can any weight car run the 275mm as long as they take the -0.3 penalty?

ST4 tire width is 6.4.1.2

i) Vehicles with a Minimum Competition Weight greater than 3000 lbs. Must have a measured tire NASA Section Width equal to or less than 282mm.

ii) Vehicles with a Minimum Competition Weight equal to or less than 3000 lbs. Must have a measured tire NASA Section Width equal to or less than 266mm.

Edited November 17, 2022 by Eric Jensen

[Ahmad Lutfeali]

Hi Greg, 

Thank you for taking the lead on this. I run a Toyota 86/FRS in MA/NE region and we have been disadvantaged from the start. At 190whp peak (on NASA Dyno multiple times) and approx 172whp average; even taking into the front splitter .5, BBK .2 and running wider 245 R7 etc. We still are underpowered and overweight (150lbs at least) on a fully caged ST5 car. 

With competition running RC1 and taking 1.6 advantage, throttle body and narrow tire advantage, they are now leaps and bounds ahead plus they do not have to worry about HC lives on their tires. 

2020 Summit Point June event, majority of us were tenths to a second off. Now the delta is much wider. 

Since we are unable to make power or reduce weight and others have options to run in either ST4 (if needed for multi class racing), why cant we (BRZ 1st gen) allowed to run ST6 IF we make hp/weight rules? 

In our case, this would mean running RC1 (big economical advantage), removing the rear wing/splitter and running petrol vs ethenol (for reduced power) and the car would fit in perfectly fine (if not better classed) for ST6. This would be approx 2750lbs no aero, RC1 and 155-158whp average - can be detuned if needed for petrol. 

Much appreciated. 

Ahmad Lutfeali

Edited November 17, 2022 by Ahmad Lutfeali

[stevensa]

Hi Greg,

As others have noted above, can we please revisit the 305mm section width rule and either eliminate it or change it to greater than 315mm? Most competitors run 18" wheels which has a very large selection of tires available in the 315mm size. The 305 rule really limits tire selection, and I am not sure what problem we are really solving? The current ruleset gives an advantage to those who wish to runs 275s or smaller (I used to do this with great results), but allows great flexibility on the bigger sizes. 

Maybe I am not seeing the greater issue, but it sure seems like this rule change just makes it more of a pain to be a competitor. 

Thank you,

Andrew Stevens

[Nick Smither]

The 305 tire size limit on ST2 makes no sense. 

Most manufacturers other than Toyo (including Hoosier) don't make a 305 in 18's.  Heavy cars on 315's are already at a disadvantage to lighter cars running 295/305's on most tracks.