sleeperlove Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Why is there no negative points for car being over the base weight? It only seems logical that since you use points for being below why don't you get them back for being over? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 That would be great , than my car with Koni's, spring's, dot r and gutted at its minimum could be ballested back to its base class. Let's do it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Why is there no negative points for car being over the base weight? It only seems logical that since you use points for being below why don't you get them back for being over? it'd have to be at a "worse" schedule than the points you get for reducing weight - location is almost as important as amount. You could probably add ~50lbs in the right spots and not really notice it... definiatley not fair for it to be the -4 points you'd get if we use the same schedule as weight reduction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeperlove Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Why is there no negative points for car being over the base weight? It only seems logical that since you use points for being below why don't you get them back for being over? it'd have to be at a "worse" schedule than the points you get for reducing weight - location is almost as important as amount. You could probably add ~50lbs in the right spots and not really notice it... definiatley not fair for it to be the -4 points you'd get if we use the same schedule as weight reduction Thats not all that different than someone going below weight and ballasting back up to weight in un seen strategic places. I'm sure those people are out there but NASA inspection isn't strict enough/doesn't have the time to catch them. It would just have to be on the honor system like much of the NASA rules rely on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 Thats not all that different than someone going below weight and ballasting back up to weight in un seen strategic places. I'm sure those people are out there but NASA inspection isn't strict enough/doesn't have the time to catch them. It would just have to be on the honor system like much of the NASA rules rely on. thats actually legal - and do you want to really give someone 4 extra points to play with for putting in another 50lbs in via that method while they're at it..? I don't. Maybe 1 point instead. see what I'm getting at at least even if you don't agree? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeperlove Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 It makes sense, but its already sort of in place, people can get below weight and strategically get back to their base weight and use those points for tires or whatever they need. So why shouldn't it follow that overweight can get points back in the same way? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted April 1, 2009 Share Posted April 1, 2009 I would be ok with it, just saying that it'd need to be pretty signifigant amount of weight per point instead of using the same table as weight reduction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I would be happy with some form of credit for being overweight. Perhaps we could agree on the credit being about half of the penalty. I'm using the credit from tires and would like to get some benefit for being so overweight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted April 2, 2009 National Staff Share Posted April 2, 2009 Not going to happen, for the hundredth time........ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Not going to happen, for the hundredth time........ I'm planning on running in 2010. That's plenty of time to debate this and come up with a good, fair proposal for changes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Gotta LOVE IT Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpnwiz Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Not going to happen, for the hundredth time........ I'm planning on running in 2010. That's plenty of time to debate this and come up with a good, fair proposal for changes. I don't really get it. TT is one small step away from a full racing series. Weight is a competitive disadvantage in speed. Why would the governing body let those that choose to run overweight have an advantage in points back? That concept is completely counter-intuitive to the sport as a whole. You have gutted your interior, run lightweight weels, and tried to save weight in other places too right?? If all that hasn't got you close you can always get base classed on dyno and competition weight! Seems to me that would be the logical next step. Patrick Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrc24x Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Not going to happen, for the hundredth time........ I'm planning on running in 2010. That's plenty of time to debate this and come up with a good, fair proposal for changes. I don't really get it. TT is one small step away from a full racing series. Weight is a competitive disadvantage in speed. Why would the governing body let those that choose to run overweight have an advantage in points back? That concept is completely counter-intuitive to the sport as a whole. You have gutted your interior, run lightweight weels, and tried to save weight in other places too right?? If all that hasn't got you close you can always get base classed on dyno and competition weight! Seems to me that would be the logical next step. Patrick Nail, meet Head. My guess is that Joshuas time could be used more wisely to lose some weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 NASA-TT fitness program. Actually, now that I think about it. I think I'm going to start offering free donuts to everyone in TTA. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Actually, now that I think about it. I think I'm going to start offering free donuts to everyone in TTA. I like the way you think - I might one-up you though and give free beer to all TTF guys. Get em heavier AND hungover the next morning Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sleeperlove Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 Not going to happen, for the hundredth time........ I'm planning on running in 2010. That's plenty of time to debate this and come up with a good, fair proposal for changes. I don't really get it. TT is one small step away from a full racing series. Weight is a competitive disadvantage in speed. Why would the governing body let those that choose to run overweight have an advantage in points back? That concept is completely counter-intuitive to the sport as a whole. You have gutted your interior, run lightweight weels, and tried to save weight in other places too right?? If all that hasn't got you close you can always get base classed on dyno and competition weight! Seems to me that would be the logical next step. Patrick My car is mostly gutted, light wheels, light driver seat, etc But as it sits right now with me in it it weighs 2791, with my min. comp weight at 2651. I could get down to weight if i took the last little bits of comfort that are left in the car out and lost a bit of weight myself. I don't see how it would be counter intuitive to the sport its a disadvantage to run smaller tires but you get points back for that and no one bats an eye. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomn29 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 My car is mostly gutted, light wheels, light driver seat, etc But as it sits right now with me in it it weighs 2791, with my min. comp weight at 2651. I could get down to weight if i took the last little bits of comfort that are left in the car out and lost a bit of weight myself. I don't see how it would be counter intuitive to the sport its a disadvantage to run smaller tires but you get points back for that and no one bats an eye. Personally, I'd consider yourself fortunate to have such an attainable/low min. competition weight. Think if it were the reverse! There's a few cars out their that can't remove anything because their min. competition weight is so close to the delivered curb weight. My car is pretty bare on the inside; I've purchased several lighter materials including the expensive mini-battery and I'm about 100lbs over. I have no problem with that. I know that I can take the extra effort to go lower if I want; and others with my model have proven it's been done. It's amazing how fast some sound deadening here and there add up! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpnwiz Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I don't see how it would be counter intuitive to the sport its a disadvantage to run smaller tires but you get points back for that and no one bats an eye. Weight itself is counterintuitive to auto racing, that's why we spend so much on lightweight materials. I understand your concept with the tire sizing, but a lot - lot, lot LOT - of what people do with race cars is try to make them lighter. Anyway in your specific situation I would recommend you maximize your power mods to be at the hp:wt limit for your class. Then send in to Greg for a new base class based on the dyno and comp weight. IMO that should put you in the best competitive situation possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 I don't really get it. TT is one small step away from a full racing series. Weight is a competitive disadvantage in speed. Why would the governing body let those that choose to run overweight have an advantage in points back? That concept is completely counter-intuitive to the sport as a whole. Running tires that are narrower than permitted for the class is a disadvantage too, but points are allowed back there. It's simply an extension of that concept. I don't understand why proposing to apply the same logic to weight causes controversy. You have gutted your interior, run lightweight weels, and tried to save weight in other places too right?? If all that hasn't got you close you can always get base classed on dyno and competition weight! Seems to me that would be the logical next step. Patrick I have not completely gutted the interior (only about 10 lbs there), removed bumper supports, or done anything else to compromise the utility and safety of my car. TT is just one step away from HPDE too, and I still drive my car to events. The A/C is gone, lightweight wheels and seats are installed, and I have a 6-point cage in place that adds quite a bit of weight but makes the car safer on the track. You do know that you can run TT with a roll bar and save about 80 pounds of tubing, right? And you do know that removing bumper supports (as is done on some PTE cars) saves weight and decreases polar moment of intertia, but I will not do that to preserve frontal and rearward crash protection. I've done everything else that I can think of to lighten the car. I'm currently running 80-90 pounds over minimum competitive weight. At 6'1" I don't have much to lose from my 180 pound body weight, maybe 5 pounds at the most. You mention getting my base class reviewed and that's a good suggestion, but I suspect that I'm within the correct Weight/Power range for my class. Another approach is to maximize my power under the new Weight/Power ratio rule. If I can find another 12hp I'll be at the limit for my actual competition weight. If there is no adjustment for weight in 2010, that's fine, I'll keep competing. I'm surprised that some are so resistant to a discussion of this as a possibility. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vpnwiz Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 You mention getting my base class reviewed and that's a good suggestion, but I suspect that I'm within the correct Weight/Power range for my class. Another approach is to maximize my power under the new Weight/Power ratio rule. If I can find another 12hp I'll be at the limit for my actual competition weight. Not sure what all that polar moment stuff is, but my comments about getting dynoed and choosing your competition weight weren't insinuating that you may be over powered for your class - if you go that route you no longer have to take points for engine mods. So there could be some benefits for you there! Also keep in mind the ultimate goal for PT and TT is to (someday) have all cars classed on comp weight and power. Creating new rules to give points back for cars that are over "book" weight would be a step backwards in that direction. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted April 2, 2009 Share Posted April 2, 2009 ah so it'll be just like GTS but for all cars then... great Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted April 2, 2009 Members Share Posted April 2, 2009 ah so it'll be just like GTS but for all cars then... great No, it wont. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 An its a left jab for Ken and there's a right hook for Shawn Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted April 6, 2009 Share Posted April 6, 2009 An its a left jab for Ken and there's a right hook for Shawn *ducks and rolls* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Shawn M. Posted April 6, 2009 Members Share Posted April 6, 2009 An its a left jab for Ken and there's a right hook for Shawn Oh come on, not even. I was reasuring Ken that his fears were not true. How is that a right hook? Besides, I would not ever hit Ken. Id put in in a rear naked choke til his heart stopped. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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