2009 Rules

[32EVOIX]

One other item I did not mention, I too went over my car a bunch of times and had others go through my car as well to make sure that it was compliant. We obviously ALL missed this.

[Joshua]

I was just on the Tire Rack website and noticed a new tire listing for Kumho, the W710.

New rain tire isn't it?

You are correct! Thanks for clearing that up as there was no picture or description on the TR website.

[Varkwso]

...Yes Jeff I am quite sure about “most zo6’s” besides I did not start this part of the thread and I am not interested in going down this road, in this sport times speak for themselves. But since you brought it up… Nice cherry picking though on my laps you forgot to mention that your previous TTB record at RA was 1:45+, first time on the track and it poured for the first day and only got two sessions on a dry track one which was DQ for a spin in which I ran a 1:41 my car had full interior and 150 lbs overweight but that is no problem. Hopefully, I will make it up there in March running TTA and clarify the issue.

 

Jimmy - not to pick a fight - but it was the only place I could find (at any track) where we ran the same track on the same day. On that weekend the 99 FRC blew an oil line to the cooler on Friday so I was running my stone stock 40,000 mile ZO6 with brake pads and V710s with a street alignment. Road Atlanta is not a very frequent track for us either - it is unforgiving but I sure do love it when I go. I have hit the inside wall head on at 100 mph there already (giving a checkride that hit antifreeze on T12 exit) so I definitely pucker up at that one.

 

We ran a 1:39.774 on Toyo RA1s this month at Road Atlanta and were smoked by Patrick in his 911 at 1:37.52 in the last session (we were already retired with a blown off airtube - but we had very little for "the man" that day). We would have loved to have you there and look forward to having you down there. I do not mind getting beat fair and square - matter of fact find it inspirational to figure out why I suck so bad. You will need to do a 1:35.x to win at Road Atlanta in March 09 in TTA is my prediction - I think we can get there if the points let us run some more tire - or just prep the car and let Jake do all the running.

 

Also since you brought it up - T17 at Sebring - Jake almost kissed the wall there once since he "kind of forgot to brake in the middle" so it is an inspirational spot for us. Unless an STi or Evo is carrying ungodly boost a C5 enters faster there. We have run there a few times - it is a 10 hour pull for us to get there - I know what we have run there and I have seen the TTA times - I hope we can run there at the same time before too long.

[Varkwso]

One other item I did not mention, I too went over my car a bunch of times and had others go through my car as well to make sure that it was compliant. We obviously ALL missed this.

 

I pulled your sheet from the "book", and I do not remember the review in particular, but to be honest I generally take the word of the competitor and look at the areas I know to be a problem with reading the sheets. I remember no discussion of EDFC (still not sure what it means) but I would have no real reason to. When you ran with us you were 19 pts on your sheet.

[32EVOIX]

Road Atlanta TTB record 1:38.23 that is Dennis with his M3.

 

Sebring TTB record 2:27.59 my record.

 

There is no point in discussing hypothetical times, I believe that the time you mentioned is very much attainable but that means nothing until it’s done. Hopefully I will be able to make it up there either in March or August so we can give it a try.

[Varkwso]

Road Atlanta TTB record 1:38.23 that is Dennis with his M3.

 

......

 

Yep - I am the one that entered that time for Dennis on the NASA-SE TT track record page. Maybe I will enter one for you soon in TTA .

[Markus]

Should I make a comment about tires in here?

 

Seems like the 5pt category is going extinct with the disappearence of RA1's. Maybe move the other tire in that category up or down. Personally I don't think the R888 is really any better than an RA1, but it does seem fair it's in the same area as a Nitto.

 

Will be interesting to see how this effects people and what type of tires they run.

 

- Mark

[Shawn M.]

Should I make a comment about tires in here?

- Mark

 

 

No, you dont go fast enough to get to comment on tires or.... anything.. for the matter.

Save it for someone who actually has some speed out there on the track. (XOXOXO)

[kbrew8991]

Should I make a comment about tires in here?

 

Seems like the 5pt category is going extinct with the disappearence of RA1's. Maybe move the other tire in that category up or down. Personally I don't think the R888 is really any better than an RA1, but it does seem fair it's in the same area as a Nitto.

 

hell, as old as they'll be by Nationals the current +5 should be +3 or worse

 

- KB, who is now about to go stockpile RA1s and place them in climate controlled storage to sell them at 200% markup later this year when the supply dries up and everyone who wants +5 tires can't get them (555Rs don't count, don't come in useful sizes)

[laze1]

A few recent post indicate that the R888 doesn't need much camber to work well...so I can possible get back into my base class of TTC by de-installing my adjustable upper-A arms in my 350Z....So that is good news!

 

Should I make a comment about tires in here?

 

Seems like the 5pt category is going extinct with the disappearence of RA1's. Maybe move the other tire in that category up or down. Personally I don't think the R888 is really any better than an RA1, but it does seem fair it's in the same area as a Nitto.

 

Will be interesting to see how this effects people and what type of tires they run.

 

- Mark

[yakisoba]

Have to say, seeing Toyo R888 at +7 is a bit of a letdown. I second the earlier notion that the +5 tire slot is dead.

 

Reclass the R888 at +7, please?

 

Other than that, looking like a good year! Hoping to get out to all the events in the Texas region.

[boomn29]

I've been looking at the updated rules for PT/TT and have a question.

 

With regards to TT; do we use the adjusted power to weight ratio as well? And by adjusted I mean factoring in FWD/RWD/AWD, sedan/wagon and tire size or is that just for PT?

I'm trying to figure out the maximum whp allowed for my vehicle for the new class ratios:

 

TTA - 8.7:1

TTB - 10.25:1

[kbrew8991]

you should run it as a double check - in TTA and below you're constrained by your points and the adjusted hp:weight for your class (this is not a straight up hp:weight calculation btw)

[boomn29]

you should run it as a double check - in TTA and below you're constrained by your points and the adjusted hp:weight for your class (this is not a straight up hp:weight calculation btw)

Right. I don't think there's anyway I can get to those max ratio's unless I go stock everything else (which wouldn't be optimal!) or run street tires! haha

 

Just want to know what I'm allowed... And if it's the 'adjusted' formula as demonstrated in Appendix A of the rules.

[Tom A]

And if it's the 'adjusted' formula as demonstrated in Appendix A of the rules.

Correct.

[John Graber]

I hate everything free.

 

I want to run a car that is fairly close to stock, some tires and a little suspension, and the more items that are free the harder it is to compete. Weight alone is a big handicap. I'm not willing to gut a fair amount of the car so I have to run 250lbs over weight. How about getting points back for being overweight, just like for undersized tires? You used to get points for changing brake pads.

 

I guess I will have to talk to my Regional TT Director.

[yakisoba]

I am reasonably sure you don't get points back for adding weight. This encourages you to get down to the minimum competition weight for your ride, and run the weight to hp ratio as close as you dare.

 

unfortunately, that means gutting the car in many cases.

 

I think many folks are laboring under a misconception too: Time Trial is not about taking a daily driver to the track. HPDE are that. Time Trial is a specialized motorsport about turning the fastest lap in a given day.

 

And no, I have not gutted my car either. However, when it's paid off and I set the alignment where it longs to go, it'll cease being a street car and make the jump to track animal, full time.

[Greg G.]

I hate everything free.

 

I want to run a car that is fairly close to stock, some tires and a little suspension, and the more items that are free the harder it is to compete. Weight alone is a big handicap. I'm not willing to gut a fair amount of the car so I have to run 250lbs over weight. How about getting points back for being overweight, just like for undersized tires? You used to get points for changing brake pads.

 

I guess I will have to talk to my Regional TT Director.

 

Read number 3 from this post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25323

Spend a few bucks, and send me your Dyno and weight numbers.

We are always looking to get new guys into TT

[Shawn M.]

I hate everything free.

 

I want to run a car that is fairly close to stock, some tires and a little suspension, and the more items that are free the harder it is to compete. Weight alone is a big handicap. I'm not willing to gut a fair amount of the car so I have to run 250lbs over weight. How about getting points back for being overweight, just like for undersized tires? You used to get points for changing brake pads.

 

I guess I will have to talk to my Regional TT Director.

 

Read number 3 from this post: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=25323

Spend a few bucks, and send me your Dyno and weight numbers.

We are always looking to get new guys into TT

 

 

I recomend he starts in the HPDE program where he can learn to driver first! If hes lucky, he can get signed off for TT in a couple years! Id hate to see him get run over by a TTE Focus in his TTC Porsche! Good luck!

[Varkwso]

I have won in stone stock cars in all three years I have run NASA TT. So you can do very well in a "stock" car - I have seen stock cars trounce prepped cars in TT. But an equal driver in a prepped car, to the rules, can beat you if all else is equal (traffic, luck, whatever).

 

I love free as a guy responsible for enforcement....less areas to check on you cheatin' bastids

[jason]

"I know he's cheating cause I'm cheating and he's faster than I am!"

[krisa9977]

Well joy, the Evo guys just got the pickle. As my car sits right now maxed out for TTB I have been promoted to TTA (thanks Greg) by 9 points (+5 for forced induction and +4 for EDFC controller). Going to TTA and being competitive is going to cost a bundle of money. Firstly, I need 375 hp to the wheels which should not be bad cost wise, but a big brake kit (at 6K) to stop a 3300 lb car at those speeds and a new suspension at least $3500 is a ton of money. At 8.7 to 1 it will be a TTA car traveling at TTS speeds, which means a cage at least another $2500, and good buy daily driver.

 

The spirit of TT is to use everyday daily drivers not racecars. I drive my car everyday this is the reason why I have stayed in TTB. I minus well built a race car now, and if I do why TT when I can race. This is just stupid. I have no ECU flash, as Ken mentioned there are ways to check that, I feel as though we are getting punished for other peoples screw ups. I would like to see the logic behind the penalty for forced induction cars taking a point hit. I have had great battles with Dennis and his M3, my teammate Alex driving S2000 TTB car has given me a handful, I don't want to hear about other cars not being as competitive as my car. Dennis and his M3 has broken my records in Homestead and Road Atlanta so why the penalty. What other forced induction car has an advantage and in what class?

 

Sorry for venting guys but I am not a happy camper, I don’t need to be spending a bunch of money to play on the weekends once a month. If I did I would be racing.

 

 

Hi Jimmy,

If I were you, I wouldn't worry about new rules. If I was competing next year, I would've lost 2 points with no options to improve my car performance. In your case you are actually getting 5 points back if you reflash your ECU! Last year it would've cost you 10 points. I had my Subaru WRX and I was able to get extra 80 WHP just from reprogramming stock ECU! With your Evo, you should get even more. Those 5 points you can easily get back switching to Toyos RA1 from Hankooks and still run TTB. EDFC you don't use anyway, so you can easily get rid of it or turn it off.

[Varkwso]

..... If I was competing next year, I would've lost 2 points with no options to improve my car performance......

 

Dennis, so what are you going to do next year? Go W2W?

 

[krisa9977]

Financial crisis hit me very hard Things uncertain

[32EVOIX]

Dennis,

 

Your back, give me a call when you get a chance. You’re right, about the flash and RA1’s I am trying to decide what to do I may do that if I can find a couple of sets. My complaint was not about the rule changes as it pertains to advantage / disadvantage on performance. I actually think the changes will make the WRX’s and Evo’s unbeatable in TTA. My beef was with the cost of the changes to do them correctly. As you mentioned the economy has hit people hard and I am one of them. I will get it figured out and I will be competitive, besides I don’t think it is an issue until the nationals.