ST#97 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 So what was top 3 for each?? Murray?? who is that? Does speedcast show the race in it's entirety now that it is done for members?? Ai. 1. Murray 2. Weber 3. White 4. Rusty 5. Algozine? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKnight Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Results are up on mylaps.com now: http://www.mylaps.com/results/showrun.jsp?id=1309505 Jason Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IGZOSTD Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Congratulations Ross Murray , It's great to have you bring the AI championship trophy back to California with you Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pederb Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 1 & 2, Go Cali Congrats to Ross and all the other winners at the Nationals Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swhiteh3 Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Congratulations to all the podium finishers!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat L. Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Big congrats to both Chris and Ross! Tom from 5.0 magazine asked me who to watch for during the race and I said Ross Murray before he ended his sentence... Ross was on a steep learning curve all week and was showing some real speed in the Friday race. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Pat, what happened to you after the restart? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat L. Posted September 14, 2009 Share Posted September 14, 2009 Matt, my motor was starting to sputter a little by lap 3 and progressively got worse. Then I was running on 7 cylinders intermittently, no more than 7 after lap 8 or 9 I think, but I continued to nurse it around. So when the yellow came out I was a sitting duck for the restart. I think we had built a big enough gap that it would have been a possibility to podium had we stayed green, but it's a moot point now. Our motor issue was probably due to all that dyno time throughout the weekend Still have no idea what the exact problem was. As you can imagine myself and the crew were pretty disappointed to end the week on such a low note so the car went right in the trailer without the hood even coming off. Wished you would have been there! I think it was a great Nationals - Todd and Al did a fantastic job making sure everything went smoothly and that all the competitors were in compliance. I think had we won they would have shipped the car back in small boxes... that's how thorough they were. Now if we can just have that level of scrutiny at the regional level we'll be good! As a sidenote, I want to go on record as saying I believe all competitors next season should be required to buy and run GPS units. But we can save that for another discussion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brian-groth Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hey Pat, It was great meeting you this weekend, sorry to hear of your troubles. My plane left SLC 9am yesterday so I wasn't able to see the final race. It sure was fun watching you drive in Thursday and Friday races.....you were my pick for the win. Brian Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Concrats to the top finishers. Great racing. I'm a little miffed about the start of Sundays race. In our meetings Todd was very specific about how a start and restart was/should happen. Reality was the exact opposite. Maintaining 35 mph after the pace car pulled off, turned into Pat taking off down the front straight and leaving the rest of the field. Then a huge accordian effect, which F'd the middle rows. Just as we caught up with the front row and started to slow the green came out. The guys in the back never let up and nearly the entire field flew past. Thanks Pat, I'm glad you were able to get the gap at the start that you were looking for, but you screwed up the start for the rest of the field. The restart after the full yellow was also the opposite of what was said in the meeting. Waiting until most of the field was on the front staight to drop the green was what I heard. The reality, green flag with 5-6 cars on the straight and the rest of the field still in the last few turns. Whats the point of mandatory meetings with specific instructions if there not followed and there are no consequences ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat L. Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hey Brian, nice meeting you too... that's one badass Camaro you've got there! I'm jealous! Dave, the pace car speed and the speed of the car on pole have nothing to do with each other (once the pace car pulls off). I control the pace of the field going to the green in the case of Sunday's race. I drove up to 50mph then pulled it back to 45mph because I was afraid they'd wave off the start. If the pace car had moved off sooner, it would have been a much cleaner start because I could have sped the field up sooner. Obviously I kept getting beat down into turn one with the ~40mph starts and I'd be pretty stupid to let that happen again - actually I got beat down to turn 1 on Sunday too, but the firebird couldn't hold the inside and I drove off. I heard the middle of the field got screwed, but you can't really blame me. Unless you want me to tell everyone in the field what my plan is??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grizlbits Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Dave, If you are talking the restart, I sped up a few miles per hour to get the revs up for some the boost with the turbo, but then held that speed until the green flag. What happened behind me must have been the vipers and corvettes in between us It was a quicker green flag than I expected knowing the long line of cars in single file. I was expecting to see the green flag just before I got to the flagstand, but it came much earlier. Sorry to hear about your miss in the engine. I am sure you would have done even better than 5th without the miss. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 - actually I got beat down to turn 1 on Sunday too, but the firebird couldn't hold the inside and I drove off. I heard the middle of the field got screwed, but you can't really blame me. Unless you want me to tell everyone in the field what my plan is??? watching my video from Sunday today and yeah, you got pounded down into T1! If Tommy would have not had his serious steering issue, Lap 1 probably would have been Tommy, Me, You and Ross.....but hey, that's racing! I remember Tommy telling me before the race he couldn't turn left all of a sudden...but didn't realize he meant it still wanted to go straight! I feel sorry for his misfortune as he did so damn well all weekend. Hope he keeps his chin up cause he deserved better. Great racing to all and hope you all make it home safe. Hope to do it all again soon! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Hey Brian, nice meeting you too... that's one badass Camaro you've got there! I'm jealous! Dave, the pace car speed and the speed of the car on pole have nothing to do with each other (once the pace car pulls off). I control the pace of the field going to the green in the case of Sunday's race. I drove up to 50mph then pulled it back to 45mph because I was afraid they'd wave off the start. If the pace car had moved off sooner, it would have been a much cleaner start because I could have sped the field up sooner. Obviously I kept getting beat down into turn one with the ~40mph starts and I'd be pretty stupid to let that happen again - actually I got beat down to turn 1 on Sunday too, but the firebird couldn't hold the inside and I drove off. I heard the middle of the field got screwed, but you can't really blame me. Unless you want me to tell everyone in the field what my plan is??? Pat, again the direction given in the meeting was to maintain pace car speed until the green. Todd was very specific about wanting as much of the field on the front straight as possible for the start. I assume, that when the director gives direction, it's followed, or someone gets penalized, but that's the not the case here. I haven't looked up the section in the CCR, but my experience has been, that the pole setter can dictate the speed within reason, but isn't aloud to just take off and leave the field. You were 4-5 car lengths out front when the flag dropped. I just watched the video. That start should have been waived off, but it couldn't, because the AIX group already took the green and was racing, and I assume you knew they couldn't waive it. You took off and left the rest of us, which is exactly why we were told to maintain the pace car speed. The fact that your car doesn't start well is no reason for the whole start of race to be screwed up. If I sound bitter, it's because I am. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat L. Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Dave, I talked to Todd right before the race and told him I was going to start the field at a faster pace... he looked at me confused (like why was I even asking/telling him) and told me I was the car on pole and could choose my own speed. The 35mph that was talked about in the meeting was a control speed for the pace car. The reason I took off so fast was simple: the pace car driver kept us at an extremely low speed and stayed on track until the last possible inch. I was riding his ass hoping he might get the hint, but he felt the need to just slow even more and stay on track longer. I took off quickly to set the speed so that everyone behind me would have time to catch up... Had everyone driven heads-up, there wouldn't have been an issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam Ginsberg Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 If you read the CCR's, you'll find there is a hierarchy regarding the CCR's, Series Rules, Driver's Meetings, etc: 2009.7 NASA CCR's, Section 2.12 - Official Rules/Hierarchy: This section is intended to clarify hierarchy among some officials and rules. Where there is a conflict, the following order should be used. Each item on this list supersedes the prior listed item whenever there is a conflict:• Club Codes and Regulations • Class Rules • Local or Event Supplemental Rules • Drivers’ Meeting Information • Orders From Officials • Race Director • Executive Director • Medical Staff (with regards to patient care and their duties). If Todd was clear in stating the pole sitter was supposed to maintain pace car speed until the green (regardless of what that speed was), the pole sitter was required to adhere to the given instructions and not permitted to change it without approval. So, Todd may have stated the pace speed during the driver meeting (#4). However, once he changed it talking to Pat on grid by saying Pat could dictate the speed after the pace car exited, it fell under #5 (Race Director), thereby superseding the Driver's Meeting. Congrats to Ross and Griz for their National Championships. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Dave, I talked to Todd right before the race and told him I was going to start the field at a faster pace... he looked at me confused (like why was I even asking/telling him) and told me I was the car on pole and could choose my own speed. The 35mph that was talked about in the meeting was a control speed for the pace car. The reason I took off so fast was simple: the pace car driver kept us at an extremely low speed and stayed on track until the last possible inch. I was riding his ass hoping he might get the hint, but he felt the need to just slow even more and stay on track longer. I took off quickly to set the speed so that everyone behind me would have time to catch up... Had everyone driven heads-up, there wouldn't have been an issue. I appreciate the explanation, but I don't think anyone was expecting anything other then what was agreed to in the meeting. As for your chat with Todd just before the race, I find it interesting. As he explained in our first meeting on Wed night, he wanted a standing start but, his comprimise was a controled start with all, or as many cars on the front straight. He asked the group if we were all in agreement and everyone nodded. I don't think you were at that meeting. Tommy didn't take off when you did, so my row was way behind. Just as we were getting close and starting to slow the green came out. Me and few others were sitting ducks, as the rear of the field was already to the floor and flying. I talked to several of the guys who started behind me and they all said the same thing. They were flying to catch up just when the flag dropped. I saw this same start for several of the Miata races. One start was waived, but the others weren't. I would hope this gets discussed for next year. National champioinship races should start correctly and fairly or waived off to try and get it right again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
D Algozine Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 [quote name="Adam Ginsberg If Todd was clear in stating the pole sitter was supposed to maintain pace car speed until the green (regardless of what that speed was)' date=' the pole sitter was required to adhere to the given instructions and not permitted to change it without approval. So, Todd may have stated the pace speed during the driver meeting (#4). However, once he changed it talking to Pat on grid by saying Pat could dictate the speed after the pace car exited, it fell under #5 (Race Director), thereby superseding the Driver's Meeting. Congrats to Ross and Griz for their National Championships.[/quote] To bad the rest of the group wasn't there to get those instruction changes, per the CCR. We were following the last instructions we were given. Just frustrating to attend all of the mandatory meetings (which several didn't) , pay attention, and follow the instructions, and then..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy55 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 - actually I got beat down to turn 1 on Sunday too, but the firebird couldn't hold the inside and I drove off. I heard the middle of the field got screwed, but you can't really blame me. Unless you want me to tell everyone in the field what my plan is??? watching my video from Sunday today and yeah, you got pounded down into T1! If Tommy would have not had his serious steering issue, Lap 1 probably would have been Tommy, Me, You and Ross.....but hey, that's racing! I remember Tommy telling me before the race he couldn't turn left all of a sudden...but didn't realize he meant it still wanted to go straight! I feel sorry for his misfortune as he did so damn well all weekend. Hope he keeps his chin up cause he deserved better. Great racing to all and hope you all make it home safe. Hope to do it all again soon! Thanks Matt. I really thought I had a chance this year. Lower control arm bolt came loose for some reason. Checked everything out Saturday. It's one of those things. I really wanted an F-Body on the podium. I had something for you guys. Pretty funny.... Pat L. couldn't pull me on the straights no more. What happened? Oh well. It was a great week with everybody and I really enjoyed hanging out with everyone. Dave A. sorry about what happened on Sunday and previous. Sunday's start threw me off as well. I adjusted the best I could. It was definitely one of the fastest starts I have ever done. I was under the same impression we would start at pace car speed. I want to thank all of Nasa for such a great event. Thank you Al for the rear end parts and Todd Covini to listen to all my complaints. Matt, I'll see you next year. We'll get em...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat L. Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 Tommy, I doubt I could ever pull you on the straights, unless you're counting the times I was in Dean's barn door draft. But if you want intimate details as to why my car's straight line speed was noticeably slower during the Sunday race, it was because we ran the car 100lbs over since we wanted the wiggle room (the dyno had been sparatic all week and let's face it, we could afford to sacrafice a little time)... and in addition I was 4 mph down on the straight from the Sunday morning session (137.9 vs 134 at the same weight/fuel load) so obviously something in the motor wasn't right. I'd be happy to share data with you if you have any questions on the car's compliance. I have hp calcs thanks to AIM for Friday's sessions, Sat. afternoon and all of Sunday's laps. The fact that the car still paced the field while obviously down on power is saying something... so speculate away... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommy55 Posted September 15, 2009 Share Posted September 15, 2009 There's nothing to speculate. You built a very well built AI car to the extent of the rules. It was just hard to believe you were pulling me on the straights when I had 343 HP. You obviously built the car well and I can appreciate that. I still don't agree with the engine car combo, but that is my opinion. Great driving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Well, that sounds like a problem with the officiating then if Pat's story is correct. If a change like that was allowed prior to the Sunday race, after the meeting, then it should've been relayed to everyone since it was agreed in the meetings to maintain pace car speed. On a different note, I wasn't around for impound post race on Sunday, did the top 4 get put on the dyno? That was one of my impressions of the whole weekend is that not enough cars went on the rollers. It doesn't always have to be the top 3 or 4 cars either. Dyno 5th, 10th, and 15th if you're getting sick of putting the same guy on it. Also, tech on items that actually have a published value. Doing tech for throttle opening made no sense since there's no restriction on it. It'd be like doing tech for ignition, "OK, yep, it's got one...". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pat L. Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I don't recall a driver's meeting where it was stipulated that the pole sitter is to retain the pace car's speed... given, I was on an airplane when you all were having your Wed night meeting, but I had someone there representing me who would have mentioned it. I made the Thurs/Friday meetings and was under the impression we didn't have a Sunday meeting. The only thing that was discussed in the Thurs/Friday meetings had to do with pole sitter's choice regarding inside line. My "data geek", Eric, is putting together some video of the start... we had a smarty cam looking forward (showing some data) and a gopro looking out the back. Pretty interesting to say the least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST#97 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 I don't recall a driver's meeting where it was stipulated that the pole sitter is to retain the pace car's speed... given, I was on an airplane when you all were having your Wed night meeting, but I had someone there representing me who would have mentioned it. I made the Thurs/Friday meetings and was under the impression we didn't have a Sunday meeting. The only thing that was discussed in the Thurs/Friday meetings had to do with pole sitter's choice regarding inside line. My "data geek", Eric, is putting together some video of the start... we had a smarty cam looking forward (showing some data) and a gopro looking out the back. Pretty interesting to say the least. It was in the wednesday meeting as I remember it the same as Dave A.... that rear facing video from your car and Corey's car should be interesting!!! also, here is the shortened version of my in car.... edit: link crashed....going to vimeo shortly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m.erickson15 Posted September 16, 2009 Share Posted September 16, 2009 Sounds like a great reason to have standing starts at Nationals for 2010! Can someone make that decision now so all regions can have a chance to practice standing starts next year? Todd C., any comment on this quote from Pat? "Dave, I talked to Todd right before the race and told him I was going to start the field at a faster pace... he looked at me confused (like why was I even asking/telling him) and told me I was the car on pole and could choose my own speed. The 35mph that was talked about in the meeting was a control speed for the pace car." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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