PushinTheLimit Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Rob, You talking about running the normal Saturday and Sunday races, but add in one extra race that combines many classes together? That would be interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I agree 100%! Locally, we could throttle together PTD/PTE/944Spec/SM/HC4 and, well, still have a small group BUT at least make for some sweet racing! I know some of the locals would have a hard time getting over the whole classing thing though. "Oh that Integra in front of me isn't a 944 so I don't hav...wait...I think I heard something about a combined group race in the race group meeting..." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 I'm one of those PTA/TTA guys who live on the Hoosiers, but I'd rather buy tires and race in 10+ car fields vs. fretting if that 5th guy didn't make the event so I'm out there burning up consumables with no shot at freebies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted September 19, 2012 Share Posted September 19, 2012 Rob, You talking about running the normal Saturday and Sunday races, but add in one extra race that combines many classes together? That would be interesting. yup...nobody would skip their regular class racing at their home region for a special combined class event. make it an added race with an added entry fee and they would. its the only way the regional directors would consider it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yakisoba Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Ok, out with the old, in with the new. Got some cash set aside to change the car, so am now awaiting the rules changes. Only one thing is sure for me: I like going fast. I'm not backing off and going to slower class. I'll go up whenever possible, at least until I get too old to do so. So, taking the rest of this season to redo the car, and would appreciate the rules posted soonest. I have a feeling I'll end up in TTS. Will have to live with not taking the regional title again this year in TTA, but that's ok. Nationals next year (win or lose, looks fun) will make up for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mrsideways Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I read the first couple pages but I'm sorry I'm not up to reading the 20 odd pages from there so I'm sorry if this is a repeat. TT3 sounds good, BUT I'd like to see a Modification factor to the HP to weight to make it less of a MUST HAVE for aero devices. Nothing like saying I've got a car that makes 9.75 from the factory but now I need to go spend $3k on wings and splitters etc etc. I say this full well knowing it will hurt my own personal car that has wings and splitters etc etc. I know it's probably very complicated but having a way of factoring in the cars original cofficient of drag would be much nicer to. Because no matter what power you make a Minivan will never run with a corvette (taken to extremes I know). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obzezzed350 Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 I read the first couple pages but I'm sorry I'm not up to reading the 20 odd pages from there so I'm sorry if this is a repeat. TT3 sounds good, BUT I'd like to see a Modification factor to the HP to weight to make it less of a MUST HAVE for aero devices. Nothing like saying I've got a car that makes 9.75 from the factory but now I need to go spend $3k on wings and splitters etc etc. I say this full well knowing it will hurt my own personal car that has wings and splitters etc etc. I know it's probably very complicated but having a way of factoring in the cars original cofficient of drag would be much nicer to. Because no matter what power you make a Minivan will never run with a corvette (taken to extremes I know). Honda Odysseys have 160mph speedos aka Corvette Killer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Because no matter what power you make a Minivan will never run with a corvette (taken to extremes I know). Speed costs money. How fast do you want to go? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Honda Odysseys have 160mph speedos aka Corvette Killer True story. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted September 20, 2012 Share Posted September 20, 2012 Grouping PTA and PTB is very bad for the TTB side of the business into a single run group. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erioshi Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 My only input on ST3 is this: If you add ST3 please add STR3. Why? There are numerous small semi-tube and tube frame chassis cars floating around the US that could easily fit into NASA and need a home. They've been run off from other sanctioning bodies due to consistently changing rules, lack of leadership and so on. It costs us little to nothing to add such a class designation and the STR concept is proving itself slowly but surely nationwide. Bryan is correct - I have a ThunderRoadster (TR) that is a spec racer and it is classed in PTA or ST2/STR2. It clearly does not fit in either of those classes. Adding ST3/STR3 would bring in Legends, TR's, Baby Grands, GT-n and many tube framed cars that generally have no place to go in the standard NASA classes. Keep PTA the way it is and add ST3/STR3 for the cars that just don't have the power to weight needed to keep up in PTA. FWIW: I also believe that ST and STR should be combined. -Jim This is only my personal opinion This is another area that I've though about over the last few years. NASA seems to struggle with how to fit sports racers and other purpose-built racing vehicles into ST, and ultimately, at least to me, the compromises seem less than ideal. I really think the right answer is to split the purpose-built (from scratch) race cars and sports racers off into another class. But I think STR is probably the wrong thinking for those classes. I would think calling those classes SRx (Sports Racing) or SPx (Sports Prototype) would allow for a logical break, and allow the rules for them to drift slightly from the traditional ST package as needed. This offers NASA a growth opportunity by giving potential homes to sports racers and prototypes that no longer are competitive in other venues, and NASA's simple power to weight classing should be attractive to those race car owners. It also gives NASA a clean slate to write specific rules for those types of cars. I also believe that almost all highly prepared NASA race cars that began life as a production consumer for-road-use vehicle (with some probable exceptions - a few bits of tin does not constitute a production car) should end up in STx somewhere. It would require re-thinking some of the mod factor details, but it would ultimately allow all of NASA's production based cars to run together; at least those that are over prepared for PT and not already developed for another class. This would offer a growth path for production based cars, merge ST and STR, create a space for prototypes and other "pure" race cars, and allow NASA to branch the current ST/STR rules into two different subsets, one for sports racers and prototypes, and a another for production based ST cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydesdale Posted September 21, 2012 Share Posted September 21, 2012 Grouping PTA and PTB is very bad for the TTB side of the business into a single run group. There's no reason TTB couldn't continue as it always has. If TT is the feeder for PT and ST there's no reason they can't funnel down to fewer classes as you move up through the ranks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 When can we expect anything official? My car is currently down with the engine being rebuilt from two failed lifters last event at VIR. I don't want to put the car back together to make the December RA event only to have the rules change and have to re-rebuild the car yet again. Please do everything you guys can to reach a decision ASAP. I know I'm not the only one currently in limbo with my car. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 When can we expect anything official? My car is currently down with the engine being rebuilt from two failed lifters last event at VIR. I don't want to put the car back together to make the December RA event only to have the rules change and have to re-rebuild the car yet again. Please do everything you guys can to reach a decision ASAP. I know I'm not the only one currently in limbo with my car. Agreed. If my trans comes out again, I am changing gear ratios. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 I've halted all my plans as well and the car has been sitting immobile on the lift for several weeks now thanks to this thread. Part of me thinks Greg enjoys making us C5 guys suffer through this since this whole topic is our fault anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 Heck, part of the reason PTA/TTA numbers dropped this year was due to the talk of 16-20pt A6s. Now for the rest of the year, PTA/TTA is going to take another hit as we all let our cars sit in states of UNrepair waiting on ST3 rule changes. That is an unfortunate loss of income for NASA.... I imagine that by February I will be jones'ing for track time, but for now the car will sit. And I was already prepaid to race at least one more time this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ILIKETODRIVE Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 (edited) I imagine that by February I will be jones'ing for track time, but for now the car will sit. And I was already prepaid to race at least one more time this year. I think someone just gave themself an excuse to get a race car rental... Edited September 27, 2012 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 kevin...if you decide not to race, i will buy your prepaid entry fee from you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kubs Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 My car is almost finished in the build stage, but there are some things I was planning to do that I now have to wait to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 kevin...if you decide not to race, i will buy your prepaid entry fee from you. I will definitely keep that in mind, Rob! My oldest daughter has expressed (finally) some interest in doing a DE, so I am hopeful that she will follow through and I will convert my RA PTA entry into a DE1 entry for her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 thats cool. just wanted to give you an option. ive used all my drops for this season and need to run the remaining races this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhoward1 Posted September 27, 2012 Share Posted September 27, 2012 My only input on ST3 is this: If you add ST3 please add STR3. Why? There are numerous small semi-tube and tube frame chassis cars floating around the US that could easily fit into NASA and need a home. They've been run off from other sanctioning bodies due to consistently changing rules, lack of leadership and so on. It costs us little to nothing to add such a class designation and the STR concept is proving itself slowly but surely nationwide. Bryan is correct - I have a ThunderRoadster (TR) that is a spec racer and it is classed in PTA or ST2/STR2. It clearly does not fit in either of those classes. Adding ST3/STR3 would bring in Legends, TR's, Baby Grands, GT-n and many tube framed cars that generally have no place to go in the standard NASA classes. Keep PTA the way it is and add ST3/STR3 for the cars that just don't have the power to weight needed to keep up in PTA. FWIW: I also believe that ST and STR should be combined. -Jim This is only my personal opinion I have to agree here as well. As the owner of another such car (the legacy FFR challenge cars), we would fit nicely in ST3/STR3 as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aardwolf Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 I am late to the thread as I've just heard about this. I read the board and didn't see mention of it anywhere then heard about it from a member. I've been building a TTA car and would not favor changing it around to fit that big of a difference in pw/wt. I would go to TTS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpoz27 Posted September 28, 2012 Share Posted September 28, 2012 Greg, IF there is a change, when might we expect the release of the 2013 rules? One way or another, someone is going to have to change their car. Can't please everyone and NASA has a long history of failing why trying to do so. Make a decision and move forward. The racers will figure it out from there. We just need to know the rules of the game as soon as we can so we can work our plans. Some will get it done in 5 days, some will take another year to put money aside to mod their car. Either way, make the changes. Publish them. Weather is cooling down in the garage and I am ready to start tearing two cars down for next year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted October 1, 2012 Share Posted October 1, 2012 Up...looking for an ETA on these, or at least lb/hp ratios and what the aero modifiers will be, if any, for ST2/3. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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