07' rule questions.... clarifications....

[Greg G.]

Unless otherwise specified in the base class listing, a vehicle’s base trim package/model (U.S. Domestic Market), without factory upgrades or

options, will be used for purposes of base classing and modification points assessment.

 

 

Cars may be upclassed as defined below in Section 6.4 based on vehicle modifications. All factory options and other modifications by the factory that are not included in the basic trim package of a model (or in the non-basic trim package specifically listed below in 6.3.2 to assign a TT base class), must be assessed modification points as in Section 6.4. OEM specialedition cars that are not listed under the base classifications need to be verified with both the Regional and National TT Directors to determine the correct base class, or whether they will simply be assessed modification points for all factory upgrades compared to their standard counterparts.

 

All factory optional parts, upgrades, and vehicle specifications must be assessed points, unless they legally fall under the updating/backdating rule or are on the list of No-Points Modifications. Base classifications are for the standard base trim model of a vehicle, without factory options or upgrades, unless there is a specific TT base classification listing in 6.3.2 for a non-base trim model.

 

I think we have it covered

[cosm3os]

My turn--

 

May be a bonehead question, but don't want to assume anything--are shock mount reinforcements (to prevent the mounts from tearing out) and camber arm reinforcements cost any points?

[loudes13]

No, it means that all of the parts on an R package Miata that don't come as a standard item on a base model Miata must be assessed points.

 

 

Markus that only works for 350Z's, C5 corvette's, and C6 corvette's, not the most afforable, readily available sports car (Miata) known to man.

 

Markus, you still in TTE for '07?

[shessler]

The 350Z may be based low enough to gain something, but given their base classing I can't imagine a C5 or C6 being competitive in anything other than the POWER/WEIGHT classes, so probably a moot point anyway... Mine bumps to TTA with not much more than probably 5 extra horsepower and slightly wider street tires.

 

As long as the everyone's base model remains a base model everything should work out. But I haven't spent a lot of time digging through the paperwork trying to find that one car that slipped through the cracks...

 

At least I have plenty of cars to choose from for TTE.

[Markus]

Yeah...still TTE...how 'bout you Skilly? Will the S2K come back or are you joining the (Miata) dark side?

 

You know it's just not the same in here, I ask a stoopid question a day ago and Meze hasn't even made fun of me yet.

 

- Markus

[Shawn M.]

You know it's just not the same in here, I ask a stoopid question a day ago and Meze hasn't even made fun of me yet.

 

- Markus

 

 

You did? Sorry, pain meds blur stoopid questions..... huh? oh yeah..... I got nuthin... ill make fun of you late.

[Greg G.]

My turn--

 

May be a bonehead question, but don't want to assume anything--are shock mount reinforcements (to prevent the mounts from tearing out) and camber arm reinforcements cost any points?

 

It really depends on what we are talking about in terms of "reinforcements". There are points assessments for "other chassis stiffening devices or fabricated parts", non-OEM rear trailing arms and rear FWD control arms (for stiffness), front and rear strut tower bars, and "replace or modify control arms" that could all potentially be associated with what you are talking about, or perhaps there is no assessment. It sounds like good photos and/or inspection is needed to evaluate those mods on your car.

[Greg G.]

The 350Z may be based low enough to gain something, but given their base classing I can't imagine a C5 or C6 being competitive in anything other than the POWER/WEIGHT classes, so probably a moot point anyway... Mine bumps to TTA with not much more than probably 5 extra horsepower and slightly wider street tires.

 

As long as the everyone's base model remains a base model everything should work out. But I haven't spent a lot of time digging through the paperwork trying to find that one car that slipped through the cracks...

 

At least I have plenty of cars to choose from for TTE.

 

I think you are forgetting this rule for '07 from Section 6.1:

The minimum “adjustedâ€

[Greg G.]

No, it means that all of the parts on an R package Miata that don't come as a standard item on a base model Miata must be assessed points.

 

 

Markus that only works for 350Z's, C5 corvette's, and C6 corvette's, not the most afforable, readily available sports car (Miata) known to man.

 

 

Hey Allen----->

 

[kbrew8991]

I'm glad there's no special edition MR2 that I paid extra money for so I could get screwed by these rulings

 

you Miata and Neon guys have fun with getting shafted

[cosm3os]

My turn--

 

May be a bonehead question, but don't want to assume anything--are shock mount reinforcements (to prevent the mounts from tearing out) and camber arm reinforcements cost any points?

 

It really depends on what we are talking about in terms of "reinforcements". There are points assessments for "other chassis stiffening devices or fabricated parts", non-OEM rear trailing arms and rear FWD control arms (for stiffness), front and rear strut tower bars, and "replace or modify control arms" that could all potentially be associated with what you are talking about, or perhaps there is no assessment. It sounds like good photos and/or inspection is needed to evaluate those mods on your car.

 

The rear mount reinforcers are OE pieces that are shaped like the top inch of the tower and just welded in to essentially double the strenth of the mounting point. Doesn't stiffen the chassis or otherwise connect the mount to any other part of the car.

 

The camber arm reinforcement is simply a piece of steel to box in the arm.

 

I am most concerned with the shock mount cause I already tore one out last year. I can get a pic of it if needed.

[Greg G.]

My turn--

 

May be a bonehead question, but don't want to assume anything--are shock mount reinforcements (to prevent the mounts from tearing out) and camber arm reinforcements cost any points?

 

It really depends on what we are talking about in terms of "reinforcements". There are points assessments for "other chassis stiffening devices or fabricated parts", non-OEM rear trailing arms and rear FWD control arms (for stiffness), front and rear strut tower bars, and "replace or modify control arms" that could all potentially be associated with what you are talking about, or perhaps there is no assessment. It sounds like good photos and/or inspection is needed to evaluate those mods on your car.

 

The rear mount reinforcers are OE pieces that are shaped like the top inch of the tower and just welded in to essentially double the strenth of the mounting point. Doesn't stiffen the chassis or otherwise connect the mount to any other part of the car.

 

The camber arm reinforcement is simply a piece of steel to box in the arm.

 

I am most concerned with the shock mount cause I already tore one out last year. I can get a pic of it if needed.

 

I would like to see a photo. Does the shock tower mount change the mounting height of the shock (change travel)?

 

It does sound like the camber arm reinforcement would be a modification of a control arm (which is +4). The wording of the rule does not allow for that type of modification for no points.

[Markus]

you Miata and Neon guys have fun with getting shafted

 

Eh, I'm fine with the new rules. I was a little shocked at first, and I still think OEM turbo cars have a bit of an advantage, but after carefully reviewing them I think I have a good strategy that will allow my car to be very competitive in TTE....I guess we'll see!

 

Now when does the season start?!?

 

- Mark

[cosm3os]

 

 

It's 1/8'' steel stamped out to the exact contour of the tower. Mounts flush to the bottom of the tower (from underneath).[/img]

[Greg G.]

That looks fine. I would say that it does not need a points assessment.

[cosm3os]

Thanks! I'll have more peace of mind.

[shessler]

I think you are forgetting this rule for '07 from Section 6.1:

The minimum “adjustedâ€

[PeteL]

Non-OEM brake calipers are +2. What about OEM calipers that have been relocated to permit a larger brake rotor?

[Mitchm]

I removed the mechanical cooling fan on my car after one of the fan blades broke and have never replaced it. The car cools fine without the fan because there is also a electric fan that is part of the air conditioning system. I don't see any place in the rules that covers this. Am I just overlooking the rule that would apply.

[Greg G.]

Non-OEM brake calipers are +2. What about OEM calipers that have been relocated to permit a larger brake rotor?

 

If you just shim the OEM mounting location to accomodate a wider rotor, that is fine. If you change the actual location of the OEM caliper to accomodate a larger diameter rotor, you take the +2 points. The intent of the rule is to allow for any type of brake pads and slotted, dimpled, drilled, treated rotors (and even wider rotors if they will fit the stock calipers) for no points, and for a "big brake kit" to get charged the +2 points. Having a larger diameter aftermarket rotor with a relocated caliper is functionally the same as a "big brake kit". (and no, I don't want to hear the argument that it's not as good as an XYZ brand BBK with a larger caliper, etc.--it's up to the driver to decide if he wants the mod or not)

[Greg G.]

I removed the mechanical cooling fan on my car after one of the fan blades broke and have never replaced it. The car cools fine without the fan because there is also a electric fan that is part of the air conditioning system. I don't see any place in the rules that covers this. Am I just overlooking the rule that would apply.

 

I suppose that a competitor could argue that it should fall under the replacement pulley rule, since it is essentially lightening the work of the pulley.

 

9) Replacement pulleys (other than for supercharger) +1

 

If you have the extra point to spare, just claim it. If not, then putting the fan back on the car would be the easiest solution to prevent getting protested. If it was an electric fan, I wouldn't worry about it, although its removal would force you to use the alternate method for weight reduction since it is not a listed item.

[Mitchm]

Thanks, I'll add the point.

[kbrew8991]

Ok, just to make sure I got 2 things right, please answer me this:

 

I have a set of BuddyClub Coilovers (retail for $1995, so under $650 each). They are only 1 way adjustable.

 

Does that mean I get +3 for the struts and +2 for the springs? That it?

Ditto for Tokiko Illumina 5-way adjustable coilovers: +3 for the struts, plus separate +2 for the springs is the way I read it.

 

Correct.

 

and

 

Ok, just to make sure I got 2 things right, please answer me this:

 

I have a set of BuddyClub Coilovers (retail for $1995, so under $650 each). They are only 1 way adjustable.

 

Does that mean I get +3 for the struts and +2 for the springs? That it?

 

I also have a different front lip on the car. It really has no aero purpose to it, although kinda looks like a splitter. It sticks out no more than 2" from the furthest. Is that only a +1 splitter modification point?

 

Thanks!

 

Yes on the +3 for struts and + 2 for springs. Yes on the +1 for the kinda-splitter.

 

I see on page 22 (Suspension Section) that line 10 reads:

changing the orientation/design of the OEM shock and/or spring perch (example: inverting them) +1

 

does that mean that if your shocks/spring perches aren't threaded that you need to take +1 for a threaded coilover setup in addition to the +3 for shocks and +2 for springs?

 

I only ask because its the difference between TTF and TTE for the changes I'm planning... I might have to not do one of the mods I'd like to

 

edit: also, would a shock that has compression, rebound and height adjustment count as a double or triple adjustable shock?

[Markus]

does that mean that if your shocks/spring perches aren't threaded that you need to take +1 for a threaded coilover setup in addition to the +3 for shocks and +2 for springs?

 

Good question! I'm waiting to hear the answer on this myself...

 

Last year there was a +1 point for the coilover conversion kit, this year it was removed and ride height was added to the free mods section. So I thought I was looking at just points for springs and shocks.

 

But - if it is the case that a coilover conversion kit is free, doesn't seem fair to penalize someone +1 just for changing orientation of OEM pieces...

 

Later,

 

- Mark

[Greg G.]

 

Does that mean that if your shocks/spring perches aren't threaded that you need to take +1 for a threaded coilover setup in addition to the +3 for shocks and +2 for springs?

 

I only ask because its the difference between TTF and TTE for the changes I'm planning... I might have to not do one of the mods I'd like to

 

edit: also, would a shock that has compression, rebound and height adjustment count as a double or triple adjustable shock?

 

No, you can add a "coilover kit" for no points. It really applies to the inverted struts.

 

"Standard" compression and rebound adjustments would be two ranges of adjustment. Height adjustment is free. Three ranges of adjustment means that there is (usually) compression, and both high and low rebound adjustment ranges, or rebound and high and low compression adjustments ranges.