stevepoe Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Well one way is through the hcu "hydraulic control unit" in order to run a fr race abs you would first need a hcu. They are different then a gt. So if you have a gt you would need two parts the fr ABS module and the hcu from a gt500. If you have a gt500 then you can just remove the electronics from it and bolt the fr version on. Sorry to say it can't be indentified they look exactly alike. They do have a part # sticker on them but a heat gun and razor blade would fix that problem. We went round and round with this years ago and since abs was already legal in the series it was made to be legal as well cause it could not be policed. I see this . you make abs illegal in AI and car count will go down not up in my opinion. I think that would be it for guys that can make the jump easy into st2. in order to make AI grow I still think they need to merge cmc into ai and create a few classes in it . and now is the time to do it with cmc and cmc 2 being one group next year. It works in GTS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 in order to make AI grow I still think they need to merge cmc into ai and create a few classes in it . and now is the time to do it with cmc and cmc 2 being one group next year. It works in GTS I doubt it would happen. Most of the CMC guys want nothing to do with AI due to the perceived cost. AI is a 'wallet series", not a "driver series". Not my opinion, but the opinion of most looking from the outside in. I don't see the huge deal with worrying about the Mustangs going to ST2 if you yank ABS. Either they want to race AI or they don't. The S197 was just another chassis in the series until all the Ford Racing stuff started hitting. That is my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpoz27 Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Wish we had room in our shop for one of these....maybe we are confusing "factory backed" with "factory race team developed" If the perception is that joe chump is racing against Gibbs Racing...regardless of what parts are on the cars, the series will struggle...especially in this economy. Since Pat was brought up....what happens if someone like Pat builds an S197 to the FULL extent of the rules...say a slope nose S197 with the shape of a camaro and the development of the Factory developed race car. The average Joe has no chance to compete and will take their money elsewhere. Right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 in order to make AI grow I still think they need to merge cmc into ai and create a few classes in it . and now is the time to do it with cmc and cmc 2 being one group next year. It works in GTS I doubt it would happen. Most of the CMC guys want nothing to do with AI due to the perceived cost. AI is a 'wallet series", not a "driver series". Not my opinion, but the opinion of most looking from the outside in. I don't see the huge deal with worrying about the Mustangs going to ST2 if you yank ABS. Either they want to race AI or they don't. The S197 was just another chassis in the series until all the Ford Racing stuff started hitting. That is my opinion. Seriously TJ? And what has Ford Racing done for me and for most of the SN197 cars in the series? Wait, I can tell you, nothing. And SN197's leaving the class wont hurt it?? I thought we were trying to improve the car count? An please, you really think your going to get a bunch of cars coming back in because you make ABS illegal? Conversly, the same could be said about those who dont have ABS now. They can go to CMC. I dont think the answer to raise car count is to lower it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 Ken, I'm not 100% sure how it works but it must to some degree or wc wouldn't be using it . I know we have a few guys on the boards that run or ran wc that could chime in. I know PB is on the boards every now and then. maybe base nationals rewards weight on how many regional wins you had during the season ? Hell I don't know it was just a thought that I think could work for us. this could also help as keeping pro drivers from running away with everything if they showed up . or least make them work a little harder. Dave the reason the fr abs is legal is because you can't tell it apart from any other abs module. PB hates the weight penalties. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houstonnw Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 in order to make AI grow I still think they need to merge cmc into ai and create a few classes in it . and now is the time to do it with cmc and cmc 2 being one group next year. It works in GTS I doubt it would happen. Most of the CMC guys want nothing to do with AI due to the perceived cost. AI is a 'wallet series", not a "driver series". Not my opinion, but the opinion of most looking from the outside in. Thanks, I was just planning to post this. As a current CMC racer, I don't want anything to do with rules and technology creep. If CMC needs to stay current to attract newer cars and drivers, I think that that new V6 cars can be made competitive with Fox Mustang vs. 4th Gen Camaro type allowances. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 14, 2011 Share Posted October 14, 2011 if i am reading steve's proposal correctly, it sounds he is suggesting american iron become more like gts where they have 5 levels of prep. cmc/cmc2 as it stands would be AI1...full blown AIX would be AI5. maybe i am wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 the only difference between GTS1 and GTS5 is the horsepower to weight ratios. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 i know that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Houstonnw Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 i know that. So if you were replying to my and nape's post, you've just reinforced why we CMC'ers don't want the classes combined, no? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robbodleimages Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 i should shut up and let steve speak for himself. what i read was the idea of combining the pony car racing into a single group with different divisions built in. my feeling was the rule sets would be more involved than pure power to weight ratio, but that there would be more shades. for instance there is a massive space between current ai specs and where griz level aix cars are. i think part of what i read from steve was that there would be a rule set in the middle there. with the same idea between cmc and ai. i could be completely wrong. we all know i am challenged. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 ....in order to make AI grow I still think they need to merge cmc into ai and create a few classes in it . and now is the time to do it with cmc and cmc 2 being one group next year. It works in GTS Wow, take a growing healthy series and merg it w/ a failing one? No thanks. As TJ said, most all of the CMC guys I know have zero intrest in running under an AI banner or management (sorry Todd, but right now - AI is the turd in the punch bowl). One thing AI has totally wrong is the idea if we give everyone the same thing, they will all be equal. CMC does not believe in this. We adjust platforms based on data collected and performance on track. CMC has the best parity in the history of the series (excluding the S-197 - still collecting data). I see 2012 being one of the best years for CMC nationaly. I also don't think "evolve or die" is a good path. AI (as is CMC) is a grassroots racing class. No need to kick the old out for the new. If you want the new stuff, you gotta make them fit. If they don't fit, they don't fit. Tranny this, 14" that, 18" here, ABS have's, ABS have not's...... does not seem to be much parity in this class. Sorry for the rant. Just wanted to say, CMC does not want to be under AI or Todd. CMC had him, we are OK w/ him gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T&A Racing Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 [quote name=" Sorry for the rant. Just wanted to say' date=' CMC does not want to be under AI or Todd. CMC had him, we are OK w/ him gone.[/quote] Love it, any one want to sell a Cmc car Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 Please leave CMC out of spec Mustang, we are doing just fine on our own. You guys got the class you wanted, please keep it to yourselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevepoe Posted October 15, 2011 Share Posted October 15, 2011 guess we just wait for 2012 rules then Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Why not just sub-divide AI into AI1 and AI2. AI1 would be the one w/out 14" brakes, 18" wheels, and no ABS. Trans costs under $3K. Same power #'s. Cost limits on shocks pairs and wings ($1K each). Things along those lines. Move AI2 up in power over current AI #'s. Otherwise it will be AI of 2011 rules wise. Another issue of moving CMC under the AI banner and using it as an entry class to what is AI now is the platforms allowed. We only allow the Ford Mustang and GM F-body. AI has a whole different set of requirements. Anything that is other than the above would have to skip what could be called AI1 or 2. That would just be awkward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Members Bob D. Posted October 16, 2011 Members Share Posted October 16, 2011 I agree with Glenn, Supermac and the other CMCers that have posted here. We have no interest in combining with AI. I left AI in 2006 and began running CMC in the spring of 2007 because I could see where AI was going. I have NEVER regreted the change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marshallmosty Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 But we have so much fun eating lunch off our carbon fiber roofs between rounds... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sundialracing Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Todd, Just drop the hammer and make ABS illegal. Then all of us "new AI" guys can go race in ST2(where we are weclomed) and AI can go back to the way it was.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tornado Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 I do like idea of AI1 and AI2 not unlike GTS series. Basically would stop all the crying and allow an AI light (cheaper) and AI - More Power (new toys more money) Sort of like outlaw west coast thing. You know for all this talk about death of AI how come MA, SE, and Midwest all have 10 plus cars almost every event?? Better than I recall in years honestly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rpoz27 Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Glenn, I read your post to Matt, and he said he will like you for a few hours today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aaron B Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Why not just sub-divide AI into AI1 and AI2. AI1 would be the one w/out 14" brakes, 18" wheels, and no ABS. Trans costs under $3K. Same power #'s. Cost limits on shocks pairs and wings ($1K each). Things along those lines. Move AI2 up in power over current AI #'s. I really like Glenn's suggestion here, I may be alone on this and that is OK, but I have run CMC in an SN95, AI in an SN95 and AI in an S197. My personal opinion of the S197, having run my car 5-6 times this season, is that they are practically in a class by themselves in AI. My S197 was built by one of the top teams in AI and they also helped with some parts and setup on my SN95...it was no slouch - but I simply could not do the things on the track with my 94 Cobra that I can with my 08 GT. The idea of 2 classes within 1 might bring back some car/driver combos...maybe - but more importantly brings back the ability to get into a great class for WAY less than 50K and know they will be able to have good close racing among each other in AI1, and then allow the guy's who have the funding/ability to bring a 302S, Camaro SS, Challenger SRT8 into AI2 with maybe an 8.7:1 hp/wt and you've got an option like CMC and CMC2, then time will tell? either one or BOTH will grow, but no one is left by the curb feeling like there is no use bringing an older Ford or Chevy to AI - And don't wait 2.5 years to do this...this is hopefully not a cost issue for anyone other than maybe another color windshield banner? are alot of guy's running 14" brakes on SN95's? otherwise both "classes" already seem to exist or there would not be 10 pages of replies? I have always liked the idea of AI because I like the idea of Pony car wars, I know of at least one Camaro here in GL that would easily fit into AI2 in 2012 and it is only a matter of time before we see a Challenger SRT8 in this region.....one is close.. so pick a tire that is the same for AI1 and AI2 and let's go race collectively as unified AI drivers (like the HC and GTS 1-27 guy's do) instead of guy's taking their Fords over to "Spec Vette2". - yes you are correct, I rarely think things through and shoot from the hip, so let the reasons to the contrary begin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Glenn Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Glenn, I read your post to Matt, and he said he will like you for a few hours today. That put a smile on my face! Glad we agree on something. Progress I tell ya, progress. Tell Matt that I recall the conversation we had on the phone years ago and the comment "...give him enough rope to hang himself...." was made. He's about out of rope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nape Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 ... instead of guy's taking their Fords over to "Spec Vette2". Why not name the new class Spec S197 then instead of AI2? Also, what will happen in 2014 when the AI1 power level goes up to AI2 and AI1 cars are passing AI2 cars? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
svttim Posted October 16, 2011 Share Posted October 16, 2011 Todd, Just drop the hammer and make ABS illegal. Then all of us "new AI" guys can go race in ST2(where we are weclomed) and AI can go back to the way it was.. Works for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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