Cobra4B Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 "HCs"??? Handicaps? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vettedoctor Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Heat Cycles Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 you call everybody else stupid for not driving a corvette then you don't know what a HC is Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 you call everybody else stupid for not driving a corvette then you don't know what a HC is Doh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Because a ** car is pretty much screwed for anything. You fart, and you're in the next class. I always figured the reasoning behind a ** car is "your car really isn't par for the next class up car, but that's where you're going to compete, so we're giving you a few extra pts to play with when you get there"How many of those ** cars would be legal to run in that class, once you calculate the adjusted weight/power ratio? I know for a fact that my TTE** Mustang would not, so that whole argument is likely moot in many cases. It's not our fault you guys picked stupid cars As long as I have a stupid car, I can blame my crappy lap times on it, rather than just admit that I'm garbage behind the wheel. As for those of you who feel that +2 points for non-BTM brakes is unfair or unnecessary, note this sentence from the top of page 2 of the 2012 TTA-TTF classification forms (bolding mine): Some parts that are produced by aftermarket manufacturers as generic replacement parts may not require a points assessment provided that: they are the same size and shape, and have the same functional characteristics as the BTM part, and that they provide no significant improvement in performance, longevity, or reliability.Note longevity and reliability. This is likely why points are assessed. There are other examples of parts that increase longevity and/or reliability that are also assessed points and/or require a dyno reclass. And for the "we need rules stability" the-sky-is-falling crowd, note that this is an open discussion about something that might or might not happen 11 months from now. Jeez, try to enjoy the 2012 season already... Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I really hope Greg lit the fuse on this rediculous thread and just walked away. If not, he's probably kicked back with his feet up laughing his ass off at just about all of you. I've never seen such a nonsensical mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I really hope Greg lit the fuse on this rediculous thread and just walked away. If not, he's probably kicked back with his feet up laughing his ass off at just about all of you. I've never seen such a nonsensical mess. two words: hardtop thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 two words: hardtop thread Yeah, but I really think this one was by design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 This will push a lot more cars into TTS from a and b. We need the car count and you fast TTA guys need not apply. Sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxercask Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Note longevity and reliability. This is likely why points are assessed. There are other examples of parts that increase longevity and/or reliability that are also assessed points and/or require a dyno reclass. So we have to take points for reliable parts? That sucks!!! I thought we took points for stuff that makes us faster around the track. I can't wait until the first race. I need to get off this forum and get some track time. Unfortunately in my region, it's not until April. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I can't wait until the first race. I need to get off this forum and get some track time.Unfortunately in my region, it's not until April. Come down South...by April, we will have had 3 event weekends. More track, less internets... Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 This will push a lot more cars into TTS from a and b. We need the car count and you fast TTA guys need not apply. Sorry. Step 1: Build to the rules Step 2: Be successful Step 3: Rules get changed What do you mean "we need the car count"? As I said in an earlier post TT still has a number of unique draws over HPDE-3 that would (and in my case did) attract street car drivers to it even if they can't compete to win. It gives you timing and competition; something to measure against. People move from HPDE to TT for that added aspect. Then, if they want to win they'll move from a street car to a prepped race car. I fail to see how slowing down the winners in each class will directly attract more people to make the move from HPDE to TT.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 This will push a lot more cars into TTS from a and b. We need the car count and you fast TTA guys need not apply. Sorry. Step 1: Build to the rules Step 2: Be successful Step 3: Rules get changed What do you mean "we need the car count"? As I said in an earlier post TT still has a number of unique draws over HPDE-3 that would (and in my case did) attract street car drivers to it even if they can't compete to win. It gives you timing and competition; something to measure against. People move from HPDE to TT for that added aspect. Then, if they want to win they'll move from a street car to a prepped race car. I fail to see how slowing down the winners in each class will directly attract more people to make the move from HPDE to TT.... I need more slow drivers in TTS since I gave up on my car a while ago when I started repairing stuff. With 7 cars I hope for a 3rd so I can get tires once in a while. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 I need more slow drivers in TTS since I gave up on my car a while ago when I started repairing stuff. With 7 cars I hope for a 3rd so I can get tires once in a while. Don't you have like 6 C5s? There's got to be some killer combination of parts out of all of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKBITN Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If Varkwso's time gets beat he blames the car and goes buy's another one.That's how he ends up with so many cars.After his son beat him he just excepted the fact he's getting older and can't hang.I'm sure it was a depressing moment. Robert The youngling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 If Varkwso's time gets beat he blames the car and goes buy's another one.That's how he ends up with so many cars.After his son beat him he just excepted the fact he's getting older and can't hang.I'm sure it was a depressing moment. Robert The youngling Didn't we ban Mustangs? Banned car owners have limited internet rights. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UKRBMW Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 Been reading this thread and it certainly got pretty interesting! Let me just say - I have no dog in this fight as I'm already in TTS. But with that said I wanted to chime in on a few points: 1. You can be competitive in a car with full interior and A/C - look at my results from last year: several wins and a track record against a field of good drivers and some fully prepped race cars (unless Danny Popp shows up, but that doesn't count cause he is a robot). However, my car was fully prepped otherwise. 2. Brakes will make your car faster. I'm sorry Cobra4B - you know we're cool - but a set of $5,000 PFCs will make your car stop faster and I have data to prove it. It also does help with consumables, but make no doubt - a good kit will make you faster. 3. I disagree with Greg - slicks were not 2 seconds faster. I ran Hoosier R100 vs A6s back to back and saw a very marginal improvement in lap times. I'm sure slicks will be much better over the long stint, but I'm not sure how that impacts TT, just PT. 4. I do agree that A6s are 2 seconds faster than R6s, A6s are also 3 seconds faster than NT01s/RA1s - also have data to back this up. 5. Finally, bumping one tire will only force people to spend money on another. From racing SpecE30 I can tell you that a brand new shaved set of RA1s will be that much faster than a used one with a few HCs on them. Those who are desperately trying to win will run a new set every day. So instead of spending your money on Hoosiers you'll spend it on Toyos (and Hoosier contingency is much better). Ultimately, as several have said you can run anything you want, but there is no guarantee you'll be competitive. Winning takes car prep and car prep takes money. All rule changes are going to do is make you spend money in a different area - if not tires, than suspension, or brakes, or something else. Just think about it - everybody runs a +5 tire and suddenly you have 8 points to spend - here come $10,000 set of Penskes or Motons. Unfortunately it doesn't stop. But, if all of this is simply to make a better separation of tires based on performance than there should be a bigger difference between R6 and A6 - either lower one or bump another. But, if this is to "equalize the field" I'm not sure how it will help, just change everybody's setup - that's it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 2. Brakes will make your car faster. I'm sorry Cobra4B - you know we're cool - but a set of $5,000 PFCs will make your car stop faster and I have data to prove it. It also does help with consumables, but make no doubt - a good kit will make you faster. Faster around the entire track or just improve braking? if you up the rotor size, you need to drag all of those around. Data was gathered in a back to back test, same day, tires, etc? What exactly (quantitatively) did you find? I am on in/around ABS the whole time (whenever I want to be), I am interested to see how bigger brakes could improve on that (in TT). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 3. I disagree with Greg - slicks were not 2 seconds faster. I ran Hoosier R100 vs A6s back to back and saw a very marginal improvement in lap times. I'm sure slicks will be much better over the long stint, but I'm not sure how that impacts TT, just PT. All very good points on your part. One thing with the slicks, is it's probably going to be very track dependent due to the power hit. IOW, tracks that have a lower % of lap @ WOT will benefit from slicks, tracks where the % of lap at WOT is much higher, slicks may not show as much speed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 3. I disagree with Greg - slicks were not 2 seconds faster. I ran Hoosier R100 vs A6s back to back and saw a very marginal improvement in lap times. I'm sure slicks will be much better over the long stint, but I'm not sure how that impacts TT, just PT. This backs the results that I saw (from Mid-O), where the Pirelli WC slicks were on par with A6s (of comparable size). Perhaps there are better gummies in Hoosier's catalog than R100s? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philstireservice Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 3. I disagree with Greg - slicks were not 2 seconds faster. I ran Hoosier R100 vs A6s back to back and saw a very marginal improvement in lap times. I'm sure slicks will be much better over the long stint, but I'm not sure how that impacts TT, just PT. This backs the results that I saw (from Mid-O), where the Pirelli WC slicks were on par with A6s (of comparable size). Perhaps there are better gummies in Hoosier's catalog than R100s? I have always thought +30 for NON DOT was a bit steep..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 This backs the results that I saw (from Mid-O), where the Pirelli WC slicks were on par with A6s (of comparable size). Perhaps there are better gummies in Hoosier's catalog than R100s? The R80 is softer. All slicks are not created equal either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The great folks at Hoosier don't have their heads stuck in the sand. They are fully aware of the new 255 rule and it's ramifications - just ask them. So what do you think they are thinking now that the NATIONAL DIRECTOR is suggesting hitting them hard on their most popular competition tire? This thread could have easily been postponed AT LEAST until the 2012 contingencies were announced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The great folks at Hoosier don't have their heads stuck in the sand. They are fully aware of the new 255 rule and it's ramifications - just ask them. Regarding the 255/35-18, they were fully aware of what they manufactured as well. Just ask them. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted January 24, 2012 Share Posted January 24, 2012 The great folks at Hoosier don't have their heads stuck in the sand. They are fully aware of the new 255 rule and it's ramifications - just ask them. Regarding the 255/35-18, they were fully aware of what they manufactured as well. Just ask them. Mark From what I understand, that tire was made for an entirely different series, but I could be wrong. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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