kbrew8991 Posted February 3, 2012 Share Posted February 3, 2012 weekends are only 2 days (afaik NASA-TX entry fees didn't change and if they did it was by a small %) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
National Staff Greg G. Posted February 3, 2012 Author National Staff Share Posted February 3, 2012 Did anyone else's entry fees for a three day weekend go up about $250? Ben, was it just you, or everyone's in the Northeast that went up? Those are some hefty registration fees compared to what I've seen. Obviously, as you can see, fees for each event are set by your Regional Director. So, you should speak with Joe C. Fees are dictated by a combination of a bunch of factors, starting with the cost of renting the facility, safety crew, corner workers and other paid staff. But, ultimately it comes down to a local business decision. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joshua Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I believe he's saying that they don't want any -X (ie below 0) point mods. So lets look at what the spreads might be if +13s go to +16s and everything else stays constant +0 for harder street tires +2 for soft street tires - 2pts more +7 for treaded trackday tires (NT01, RA1, etc) - 5pts more +10 for pretty good DOT-Rs - 3pts more +16 for really good DOT-Rs (used to be +13) - 6pts more To keep the same spread/jump up between compounds but keep the really good DOT-Rs at just +13 as they are -3 (or 0) for harder street tires -1 (or 0) for soft street tires - still 2pts more (or 0pts more) +4 for treaded trackday tires - still 5pts more (or just 4pts more) +7 for pretty good DOT-Rs - still 3pts more +13 for really good DOT-Rs - still 6pts more After reading 26 pages, these still stand out as appealing options to me. It would be nice to make the R6s more competitive compared to the A6s, if for no other reason than to allow our tires to last longer while still having decent grip. As mentioned a couple pages ago, a Nissan 350Z driver recently destroyed the TTD track record at Homestead-Miami Speedway, admittedly a power track. He dropped the record by nearly 2 seconds. Conditions were ideal, and two Miata drivers (both former track record holders) also dropped the record, but by tenths, not full seconds. So, the driver of a 235rwhp, 3,195 lb heavy pig of a car toasted the drivers of lightweight cars (I'm at 161rwhp and 2,395lbs), and the Z car and my Miata were running the same width tires (225 A6s). This W/P re-classed Z might be the setup to have in D - we'll see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fixxxercask Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 The cost of a three day Mid Ohio is the same as last year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dans2k Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I think it should be mixed up this A6 2 lap crap is getting old and it helps cause accidents and unfriendlyness on the track lets bring some other tires into play and make the sessions less compressed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I think it should be mixed up this A6 2 lap crap is getting old and it helps cause accidents and unfriendlyness on the track lets bring some other tires into play and make the sessions less compressed That is the beauty of Time Trials. Get it done in one or two flyer laps. Lay down one perfect lap before the tires get hot, before the engine heat soaks and before the driver loses concentration. So exactly WHO is having accidents due to A6s and two lap flyers? -Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlkGt3 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 I simply like the idea of keeping the A6 as a +13pt tire and reducing the points associated with all lesser tires. Drop the R6 to an +8 or so and make 100 treadwear R-comps at 2 points and sticky 140 treadwear street tires at 0 points. All other street tires would be -2pts or so. This method gives more points back to those not running A6s, which would allow for more modifications on an R6 or lesser tire and therefore help to even the playing field (somewhat). It also allows an * (7pt) car to go down a size in width and still run an A6 in class. -Kevin This It also keeps from making people now running A6's not to have to scramble to change setup because the tire they were running now costs more points than they have. Peter Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 This It also keeps from making people now running A6's not to have to scramble to change setup because the tire they were running now costs more points than they have. Peter What "scrambling" is necessary? Greg is bringing up the possibility of a change, almost 6 months before the announcement could happen, which would be 6 months before it could take effect. This whole thing is nearly a year away, if it even happens. It's not like people are being given a 1-month notice. Try to enjoy the 2012 season, people. Many of you probably haven't even turned a tire on track yet. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 How many people advance up to TT and aren't using a RA1/888/NT01 at a minimum? What about making it lower in points (3/4) drop the 10pt tires to (6/7) and leave the 13 PT tire and slicks alone. It wouldn't affect the guys running them but would give the others more points to use. This would also help the PT/enduro guys that are using the 7/10 tires currently on building consistent cars and not 1 lap cars Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 That is the beauty of Time Trials. Get it done in one or two flyer laps. Lay down one perfect lap before the tires get hot, before the engine heat soaks and before the driver loses concentration. So exactly WHO is having accidents due to A6s and two lap flyers? -Kevin I agree that this is what TT is (look at the higher profile World Time Attack Challenge etc). It isn't going out and driving consistent laps. It is driving the crap out of the car for a lap or two. Driving around is for HPDE/testing and I agree with Kevin, is less safe due to traffic concerns (esp when all TT groups run together or w/HPDE 4). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 That is the beauty of Time Trials. Get it done in one or two flyer laps. Lay down one perfect lap before the tires get hot, before the engine heat soaks and before the driver loses concentration. So exactly WHO is having accidents due to A6s and two lap flyers? -Kevin I agree that this is what TT is (look at the higher profile World Time Attack Challenge etc). It isn't going out and driving consistent laps. It is driving the crap out of the car for a lap or two. Driving around is for HPDE/testing and I agree with Kevin, is less safe due to traffic concerns (esp when all TT groups run together or w/HPDE 4). Please remember that these rules also need to work for racers. The racers have to turn multiple consistent laps. Especially in the enduro format. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Why don't we just alternate/rotate who wins each weekend based on typical class participation numbers? That way no one has to spend extra time and money on tires and testing different setups. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted February 4, 2012 Share Posted February 4, 2012 Why don't we just alternate/rotate who wins each weekend based on typical class participation numbers? That way no one has to spend extra time and money on tires and testing different setups. Just for that, I am putting a big blue ribbon on your car the next time I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dans2k Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I am in favoour of bringing the sub 13pt tires down a bit to even things up so people who built the car for A6's don't get to screwed I mean if you are that good you worry about the time you loose on your 3rd lap when your engine is getting warm and your auto-x tire starts to slide a bit how can u be worried about giving the guys running around on 200 treadware or some RA1's half a crack at competing?! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ninetyfourintegra Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 While I love the same rules for two types of series, does it perhaps to make sense for a split on tires between race and TT? Realizing that this is a can o'worms.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 While I love the same rules for two types of series, does it perhaps to make sense for a split on tires between race and TT? Realizing that this is a can o'worms.... If you split tires, you split the entire set-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cucamelsmd15 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 It cracks me up that nobody complains about the no points seam welding, but will about bolt on composite body pieces. Sorry to burst your bubble, but I have complained about this last year. We have free mods such as seam welding and any FD you want, yet endlinks cost 2 points still. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Many people have complained about seam welding over the years (as well as other "free" mods). Complaints alone don't get a free mod pulled... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wlfpkrcn1 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 No bubble bursted. I guess it could be made a points mod at this point, but I suspect you will hear similar complaints to the 255 becoming a 275 tire. To me it has always seemed crazy to allow seam welding as no points. I just don't see it as realistic for a "street car" to be disassembled to seam weld. Also don't see many cars driving around with lexan windshields. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 I "assume" that there are just some things that are free because they are too difficult to police. Seam welding may be one of them. Lightweight clutches are another. After seeing how a similar car to mine corner balanced last week after a new clutch install, I know where my next $1800 are going. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Seam welds are a little hard to just "unbolt" if they suddenly became worth points. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 Seam welds are a little hard to just "unbolt" if they suddenly became worth points. Mark all cars get an extra point, and then people who haven't done it get to decide or we could've not allowed it in the first place... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedengineer Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I've never driven a car that's been seam welded, but I can't imagine there is too much benefit in terms of lap time. My thoughts are that if the spot welds aren't breaking, then the chassis flex is in the sheet metal bending, not the welds. I would wager that the added rigidity of a cage is many more times the stiffness of seam welding, maybe cages shouldn't be free either...(that was sarcasm btw). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydesdale Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 I've never driven a car that's been seam welded, but I can't imagine there is too much benefit in terms of lap time. My thoughts are that if the spot welds aren't breaking, then the chassis flex is in the sheet metal bending, not the welds. I would wager that the added rigidity of a cage is many more times the stiffness of seam welding, maybe cages shouldn't be free either...(that was sarcasm btw). They're not free. If you connect them to anything other than the 6 point weld plates then they are an additional 2 points. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
speedengineer Posted February 8, 2012 Share Posted February 8, 2012 I've never driven a car that's been seam welded, but I can't imagine there is too much benefit in terms of lap time. My thoughts are that if the spot welds aren't breaking, then the chassis flex is in the sheet metal bending, not the welds. I would wager that the added rigidity of a cage is many more times the stiffness of seam welding, maybe cages shouldn't be free either...(that was sarcasm btw). They're not free. If you connect them to anything other than the 6 point weld plates then they are an additional 2 points. I would absolutely call that free! I mean, how many people really build a cage for TT and decide they are going to build it such that they have to take 2 points for it? Besides, in addition to the standard 6 points, you also get two free footwell bars to the firewall, as well as bars that connect nascar door bars to the rocker panel. So really it's an 8+ point cage - for free! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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