MHISSTC Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 ...don't change to a 275 tire. I second that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I am just not getting all the griping about the bigger tires. You have to buy tires anyway and do a search on e-bay for 17x9.5 wheels and you can't look at all of them for under 500 a set. If you guys want to keep the series as is cause it helps u right now just ask A-sedan guys how that is working out for them. If the Fox is at that much of a disadvantage then help them advance don't just hold the series back. Matt I have been told what a great guy you are in person why get on here and stir the pot when you don't even have a CMC car? Scott get a car on the track and then all your griping about insignificant stuff might actually be listened to. Suck it up shut up and drive! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Please don't try to tell me that we need a 275 tire to "stay modern." Those with 4th Gen GMs appear to be the only ones in strong support of the 275s and 9.5 wheels. What 17-inch wheels did these cars, specifically the 4th Gens, come with from the factory? Please educate me on the OEM stock choices for the cars. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 (edited) What 17-inch wheels did these cars, specifically the 4th Gens, come with from the factory? Please educate me on the OEM stock choices for the cars. 93-02 WS6 Firebird and SS Camaro ... and they are 9" not 9.5". Seat to seat, they are 9" wide. Only the true ZR1 GS rims are 9.5 wide seat to seat and the C5 fronts are 9.5" wide seat to seat. There were also a few 3rd gen Firehawk's that came with 17" wheels. In regards to the 'balance' issue. Was there anything else changed during the testing? I made the change from 16s to 17s and saw very little change in the handling. I think the car has a little more front bite ... I did have to change my ride height as the inside edge of teh tire rubbed a hole in my inner fender liner. Also, I had to flatten out the metal inner fender at the very top so that the edge didn't cut the tire. Edited September 30, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Matt I have already come out against the larger tire, wheel and brake package I don't see any reason for it outside of accomodating the newer Mustangs and Camaros. And those cars only need the 17" wheels not the larger tire, however it seems as though some testing has been done and the 255 exposes too much wheel on a 17 inch rim. Am I understanding this correctly? If you are going to get the newer cars into the series then making them go backwards really makes no sense. So you are stuck with the bigger wheels and every one else can come along or not. I challenge anyone here griping that they can't compete to let the best driver in their region drive their car and see how much faster it gets as is. RayBob did it to me and it is very humbling. Point is YOU are the biggest problem with your platform not your smaller wheels. As far as what is available the newer SS and WS-6 cars came with 17x9's. I am no expert Mitch would know better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 There were also a few 3rd gen Firehawk's that came with 17" wheels. and by few he means 25 http://www.firehawk.com/header/1664.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 There were also a few 3rd gen Firehawk's that came with 17" wheels. and by few he means 25 http://www.firehawk.com/header/1664.html Kinda like that Cobra R wing, eh? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Has any one tested with the wings and without? According to some unnamed sources the wings hurt more than help with our front limitations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 (edited) Matt I have already come out against the larger tire, wheel and brake package I don't see any reason for it outside of accomodating the newer Mustangs and Camaros.And those cars only need the 17" wheels not the larger tire, however it seems as though some testing has been done and the 255 exposes too much wheel on a 17 inch rim. Am I understanding this correctly? If you are going to get the newer cars into the series then making them go backwards really makes no sense. So you are stuck with the bigger wheels and every one else can come along or not. I challenge anyone here griping that they can't compete to let the best driver in their region drive their car and see how much faster it gets as is. RayBob did it to me and it is very humbling. Point is YOU are the biggest problem with your platform not your smaller wheels. As far as what is available the newer SS and WS-6 cars came with 17x9's. I am no expert Mitch would know better. The newer Mustang comes with a larger brake ... 13.5"? so to amke everything kosher, the new Mustang would have to REDUCE it's brake size. That's just not practical. And with a 13" rotor with a C5 caliper, a 16" wheel won't clear caliper, but a 17" does. And the only reason I know about the 17" wheels is because when SLP sponsored the local track and provided SS Camaros for use as public ride and drive cars, they also kept them stocked with tires. When SLP came and got the cars, they left a barn full SS Camaro wheels and tires behind. I bought the whole lot ... something like 25 sets of wheels with tires and another 10 or so sets of tires w/o wheels. My shop was stacked to the top ... I think James still has a set on his street car Edited September 30, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I'm not objecting to 17-inch wheels. In fact, I lobbied for them several years ago as an option but only in 17x8 at that time. I think some people are getting the "Matts" confused. Anyway, I don't see any compelling reason why the rule needs to allow a 17x9.5-inch wheel. A 17x9 has a much stronger case to be made for it from a stock-based perspective since wheels of this size were factory installed on Mustangs and GMs. I also see no evidence that there are any issues with fitting a 255 tire on a 9-inch rim, as that is the preferred rim width according to Toyo, the manufacturer of the tire, and other series are using this combination successfully. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alien Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Kinda like that Cobra R wing, eh? I was thinking more along the lines of that super secret factory computer that adds 20hp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mitchntx1548534714 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Kinda like that Cobra R wing, eh? I was thinking more along the lines of that super secret factory computer that adds 20hp. Doh! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 The newer Mustang comes with a larger brake ... 13.5"? so to amke everything kosher, the new Mustang would have to REDUCE it's brake size. That's just not practical. It wouldn't be practical if it was true, but S197 Mustang GTs come with 12.4-inch front rotors and the stock wheels are 16s. Again, I never objected to the 17-inch diameter, I am questioning the 9.5-inch width. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 The newer Mustang comes with a larger brake ... 13.5"? so to amke everything kosher, the new Mustang would have to REDUCE it's brake size. That's just not practical. It wouldn't be practical if it was true, but S197 Mustang GTs come with 12.4-inch front rotors and the stock wheels are 16s. Again, I never objected to the 17-inch diameter, I am questioning the 9.5-inch width. Is it because most if not all of the cheap aftermarket gm wheels are that size? I dunno maybe some higher ups can chime in. Why are you so against them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I already said why I am against them. It will take extreme modifications to fit them under a Fox Mustang's fenders and I think that will result in a hardship for that platform, plus require modifications that I think are outside the scope of the class. I realize it may come as a shock to some people that I am advocating for a car I don't even drive, since that's pretty rare around here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony G Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Matt White, I took your post off. Please stay off of our site,you are nothing but trouble and if you want trouble then call me, I'll give you all you want, but stay off this site...that is your only and last warning. Do what you do best, create problems somewhere else,but not here its the wrong place to try. Tony Guaglione Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I think the series should do what ever is necessary to keep the Foxes competitive. They are the base of this series. Holding other cars back or making them go backwards is just not the way to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 (edited) So not allowing a 9.5-inch wheel is a step backwards for cars that never came with them? If you don't want to hold any cars back, let's allow unlimited suspension mods like American Iron, and we'll show you want a lowly Fox Mustang can do. Edited September 30, 2008 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MHISSTC Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Cody, I'm not griping, and if I thought it was insignificant I would not take the time to post here. Please check the current RM Region CMC standings and update your memory from 2007 to 2008 specs. You and I both have a year of running CMC under our belts. You were there in 2007 and painfully absent in 2008. In 2008, although I was not the owner or sole driver of the car, I was there as part of Team Incidental Contact. Come to think of it, I've likely expended more of my personal effort in putting The Pumpkin together than you did with the Barrett-Jackson Camaro. Are we still cool? I have no problem going with either 16" or 17" diameter wheels. I do have a problem with going with the wider 9.5" width wheels and 275 width tires on the foxbody platform because there is no indication that fender modifications will be allowed to prevent the tires rubbing on the bodywork. I also don't think this series should allow fender modifications. I know the Ford products fairly well and there weren't any 9.5" wide wheels from the factory, and from what I'm hearing from the GM camp, they didn't have any either. That is what led me to the conclusion that 9.5" wide wheels should not be part of the series...not because I felt anything narrower wouldn't be competetive. Did anyone happen to notice the 16"x7" Pony wheels, 225 wide tires, and stock sized '86 Mustang rotors/drums we were running in 2008? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AllZWay Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I would vote also to do away with all rear wings and make that rule very easy. CMC shouldn't have Cobra R's or other big ass wings....leave that to AI. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 There are a few things we should leave to AI: Aftermarket wings 9.5-inch wide wheels 275mm tires 4-piston calipers Long-tube headers S195 Mustangs, 4V Cobras & LS1 Camaros A HP-to-weight ratio that moves CMC even closer to AI in terms of lap times Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
supermac Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 So not allowing a 9.5-inch wheel is a step backwards for cars that never came with them? If you don't want to hold any cars back, let's allow unlimited suspension mods like American Iron, and we'll show you want a lowly Fox Mustang can do. I don't know why they are allowing the wider wheels, don't allow them I don't care. But saying that putting them on a Fox is hard and don't allow them because of that is lame, is a half inch really that big of a deal? The Foxes days are numbered in AI I don't care how much money those guys throw at it. I want it here because they are cheap and easy to get on the track. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
King Matt1548534716 Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 is a half inch really that big of a deal?The Foxes days are numbered in AI I don't care how much money those guys throw at it. I want it here because they are cheap and easy to get on the track. First of all, it's not so much the last half inch, as the inch that came before it. Second, yes, it can be done, but you have to substantially modify the fenders and we have specific rules against that, so now we are in a gray area. Third, I agree that the Fox is here to stay in CMC and that's why this is an important issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Did anyone happen to notice the 16"x7" Pony wheels, 225 wide tires, and stock sized '86 Mustang rotors/drums we were running in 2008? I did - and it is a huge disadvantage, but fun to drive Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nasa-rm Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 There are a few things we should leave to AI: Aftermarket wings 9.5-inch wide wheels 275mm tires 4-piston calipers Long-tube headers S195 Mustangs, 4V Cobras & LS1 Camaros A HP-to-weight ratio that moves CMC even closer to AI in terms of lap times Amen. CMC = Cheap Mustangs & Camaros Want to spend fast, go play in the AI sandbox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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