Pie in the sky rule change requests - 2012

[jason]

100?

[ninetyfourintegra]

I think it'd be realy interesting if street tire cars could be more competitive somehow

Hey, that's what I said... I didn't mean it though.

[drivinhardz06]

I think it'd be realy interesting if street tire cars could be more competitive somehow

 

The amount of weight/power you'd have to credit to get any street tire to get even close to top tier tire would be enormous.

 

While I don't really have a solution, the tire spread pts to me aren't even close to what they should be. If classes are supposed to be separated by 2-3 sec (ie, 19 pts equals 2-3 sec) the tire spread should probably be about 30 or 40 pts

[TurboShortBus]

Here's a winner of a request:

 

Could any changes regarding tire widths, compounds, etc. be made public prior to December 15 (the Hoosier contingency cutoff date)?

 

Mark

[drivinhardz06]

Could any changes regarding tire widths, compounds, etc. be made public prior to December 15 (the Hoosier contingency cutoff date)?

 

x2

[Cobra4B]

Could any changes regarding tire widths, compounds, etc. be made public prior to December 15 (the Hoosier contingency cutoff date)?

 

x2

Me Three... Have two to cash in and going to farm tires at Summit Point this weekend.

[Varkwso]

Could any changes regarding tire widths, compounds, etc. be made public prior to December 15 (the Hoosier contingency cutoff date)?

 

x2

Me Three... Have two to cash in and going to farm tires at Summit Point this weekend.

X4

[D_Eclipse9916]

I think it'd be realy interesting if street tire cars could be more competitive somehow

 

I think its quite interesting that they ADDED 2 points for street tires. My first time at VIR with the car set the way it was in march was a 2:12.8. Later that day my first time ever on hoosier R6s I did a 2:11.1 Thats not as huge as you think considering they were dunlop star specs that already had a full season of 19 autocrosses and 3 track weekends on em.

 

I love street tires, but I wonder if the 8 point difference I could mod my car to make up at LEAST 1.7 seconds. I supposed if you didnt have aero...maybe. Aero over an R6? (splitter and wing), but then your only 3 points away from an A6 which I used at nationals and was much faster.

 

I imagine the street tire debacle is more of a concern for those pesky vettes in TTA.

[clydesdale]

Here's my thought on tires, a thought I have in fact shared with Greg. If Hoosier is going to sponsor the series, they are entitled to an advantage. Whether or not that was the original intent of the point spread is uncertain. The unfortunate thing is that if you're not winning tires you'll quickly become disenchanted with the cost.

[obzezzed350]

Here's my thought on tires, a thought I have in fact shared with Greg. If Hoosier is going to sponsor the series, they are entitled to an advantage. Whether or not that was the original intent of the point spread is uncertain. The unfortunate thing is that if you're not winning tires you'll quickly become disenchanted with the cost.

 

I disagree...I love Hoosiers, but the points shouldn't play favorites to sponsors

[speedengineer]

I think it'd be realy interesting if street tire cars could be more competitive somehow

 

I think its quite interesting that they ADDED 2 points for street tires. My first time at VIR with the car set the way it was in march was a 2:12.8. Later that day my first time ever on hoosier R6s I did a 2:11.1 Thats not as huge as you think considering they were dunlop star specs that already had a full season of 19 autocrosses and 3 track weekends on em.

 

I love street tires, but I wonder if the 8 point difference I could mod my car to make up at LEAST 1.7 seconds. I supposed if you didnt have aero...maybe. Aero over an R6? (splitter and wing), but then your only 3 points away from an A6 which I used at nationals and was much faster.

 

I imagine the street tire debacle is more of a concern for those pesky vettes in TTA.

 

I agree - I don't have back-to-back comparisons, but my 255 star specs were only around a second slower than NT01, and the NT01 were probably a second slower than A6. Granted, the A6 were a 225 while the others were 255. Still though, not that much difference considering.

 

A friend of mine runs HPDE 4, but with a TTC prep level car on street tires. He ran faster than the current track record at gingerman raceway on that setup, so I'm inclined to believe that one could make the street tire/aero method work.

[TurboShortBus]

I agree - I don't have back-to-back comparisons, but my 255 star specs were only around a second slower than NT01, and the NT01 were probably a second slower than A6. Granted, the A6 were a 225 while the others were 255. Still though, not that much difference considering.

At 2 Sebring events (a year apart), I went from a 255mm RA1 to a 255mm R6 with no other changes to the car or weather, and the difference between my best lap with each tire was 2.7 seconds. Note, though, that my experience at Sebring isn't that extensive, and I still drive like crap there, so that isn't a 100% scientific comparison (although it's probably as good as I can get). Given constant widths, I would predict that A6s will be much more than a second quicker than NT01s, although the gap will close after a handful of laps (when the A6s start to overheat).

 

Mark

[drivinhardz06]

Given constant widths, I would predict that A6s will be much more than a second quicker than NT01s, although the gap will close after a handful of laps (when the A6s start to overheat).

 

A6 is ~2 secs lap quicker than R6 at Road Atlanta in cooler temps, on a C5 corvette. That gap shrinks some as temp increases.

[speedengineer]

A6 is ~2 secs lap quicker than R6 at Road Atlanta in cooler temps, on a C5 corvette. That gap shrinks some as temp increases.

 

Interesting to know. Were those the same width A6 and R6?

[drivinhardz06]

A6 is ~2 secs lap quicker than R6 at Road Atlanta in cooler temps, on a C5 corvette. That gap shrinks some as temp increases.

 

Interesting to know. Were those the same width A6 and R6?

 

actually 295 R6, 275 A6. Same wheel width (10.5). I have ran 275 As vs 295 A's on the same track/same day and times are virtually identical.

 

I think tire differences (speed) get bigger with higher hp cars, as they are dealing with braking forces, cornering forces, AND exit grip, where lower hp cars are just dealing with braking forces and cornering forces. Ie, low grip tires kill exit speed and momentum on higher hp cars and if you can get a tire to hook up really good from the center of the corner off and you are flat the whole way, the lap times just plummet. If a lower hp car isn't really having an issue with wheelspin with a street or lower grip R comp tire, it's not going to see as much gain with a stickier tire. Ie, your'e making gains with 2 elements and not 3. Just my .02.

[kbrew8991]

the C5 Mafia has alot of experience experimenting with this ruleset, but, it's focused around TTA 'vettes.

[sperkins]

This street tire stuff is just crazy talk. It's physics people. An A6 is faster than an R6 because of compound. That being said, an A6 will be considerably faster than any true street tire on any vehicle - period.

The folks that aren't seeing a dramatic difference between the two simply aren't using the tire to it's full potential due to muscle memory and pre-existing braking, turn in and acceleration points. You gotta get/take what the tire will give you. You can't just mount up a set of sticker A's and assume you're going to be 3 sec a lap faster if you don't drive the wheels off of it.

[Varkwso]

the C5 Mafia has alot of experience experimenting with this ruleset, but, it's focused around TTA 'vettes.

 

Quite a few play in S and U. Where points are not.the issue. Sadly most of the A cars/drivers are faster then my S car.

[jason]

A6 is ~2 secs lap quicker than R6 at Road Atlanta in cooler temps, on a C5 corvette. That gap shrinks some as temp increases.

The Great Lakes guys report the same 2sec at Mid-O and the tracks couldn't be more different.

[Varkwso]

This street tire stuff is just crazy talk. It's physics people. An A6 is faster than an R6 because of compound. That being said, an A6 will be considerably faster than any true street tire on any vehicle - period.

The folks that aren't seeing a dramatic difference between the two simply aren't using the tire to it's full potential due to muscle memory and pre-existing braking, turn in and acceleration points. You gotta get/take what the tire will give you. You can't just mount up a set of sticker A's and assume you're going to be 3 sec a lap faster if you don't drive the wheels off of it.

 

 

Getting what the tire will take does take some time. Driving it to the limit takes you out of your comfort zone.

 

Pilot sports are also fast on Vettes and Porsches for little while. But pricey for the benefit.

 

Street tire competition is OLOA.

[King Tut]

So it is decided then. Rule change to ban Mustangs and Hoosiers.

[sperkins]

You know - this really could have been a useful thread.

[kbrew8991]

It kinda was (and still can be). Out of the 7 RCRs I sent in 3 or 4 of them were hashed out in this thread (ideas, wording of things, etc).

 

Negative Nancy

 

- KB, ban Corvettes too!

[drivinhardz06]

It kinda was (and still can be). Out of the 7 RCRs I sent in 3 or 4 of them were hashed out in this thread (ideas, wording of things, etc).

 

with all the other blah blah and joking, I do think the adj end links thing is legit, and not rules creep. It's B&B'ing your chassis, which is what a lot of the rules allow.

[kbrew8991]

send in your support for the idea btw