cucamelsmd15 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Can we rekindle the endlink discussion? this thread is for non-serious discussions only (I've got some good ideas for example wordings of the purposed free mod to submit to Greg. After that it's up to him.) Mind sharing via PM? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob S. Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) T1 and T11 (pro course) are great turns and hardly considered autox turns. I think Mid-OH is one of the most technically challenging tracks out there. It was a very tough track to learn (for me, but I am a slow learner) and technically challenging, but it had zero thrill factor. There are no "they are gonna haul me out with a stretcher if it goes wrong" corners there. Didn't realize "There are no "they are gonna haul me out with a stretcher if it goes wrong" corners there." was a prereq for a good/fun track. Apparently you're not going fast enough. Run out of talent in T9 (going into Thunder Valley) and see what happens! Edited October 19, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 T1 and T11 (pro course) are great turns and hardly considered autox turns. I think Mid-OH is one of the most technically challenging tracks out there. It was a very tough track to learn (for me, but I am a slow learner) and technically challenging, but it had zero thrill factor. There are no "they are gonna haul me out with a stretcher if it goes wrong" corners there. you sickos are going to Road Atlanta way too often then Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomn29 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) T1 and T11 (pro course) are great turns and hardly considered autox turns. I think Mid-OH is one of the most technically challenging tracks out there. It was a very tough track to learn (for me, but I am a slow learner) and technically challenging, but it had zero thrill factor. There are no "they are gonna haul me out with a stretcher if it goes wrong" corners there. Watch a few of the PRO races or do some youtube searches and you'll find plenty. I remember a nice Aston Martin flying off sideways off the backstraight and into the catchnet - as well as a Yellow TTU Vette at Nats with much less flipping. There was an Evo in the catchnet prior to Thunder Valley a few years back. T12 at the top of the hill has caused several T-bones (I have vid of a near miss at 105mph). Mid Ohio was fun this year, first time I'd ever been there. After 2012, if they could get something like Road Atlanta or Leguna or Infineon it'd be awesome. Problem is none of those 3 are 'centrally located'. And anyone that argues that Road America or something like VIR aren't a HP track are crazy. I've been to both and running the exact same setup with 50hp less (just for testing) nets nearly a 5 second difference in laptimes. Edited October 19, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Picking your tire size is not one aspect that's broken - why monkey with it? (PS, out of all the actual smart people about the ruleset you come up with some of the most hairbrained suggestions ) Sometimes the box is an octogon that would be octagon... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kbrew8991 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Can we rekindle the endlink discussion? this thread is for non-serious discussions only (I've got some good ideas for example wordings of the purposed free mod to submit to Greg. After that it's up to him.) Mind sharing via PM? they're earlier in this thread but I'll probably work up two versions with the following intents 1.) let you do fully replace the OEM endlinks with something stronger for free, otherwise take +2 for swaybars 2.) let you strengthen the endlink, but still saddle you with any warts that might come from how the OEM part attaches at each end (ie you'd probably have to just modify an OEM endlink to meet the rule) for free, otherwise take +2 for swaybars #1 is easy to write but not as likely to pass #2 is harder to write but probably more likely to pass than #1 Not that I'm in charge of such things, just been around a while and seen a few things I dunno if Greg is going to say "no, that's rules creep" or whatever to either one, but I do suspect that less creep/change is better than more creep/change in his mind. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 T1 and T11 (pro course) are great turns and hardly considered autox turns. I think Mid-OH is one of the most technically challenging tracks out there. It was a very tough track to learn (for me, but I am a slow learner) and technically challenging, but it had zero thrill factor. There are no "they are gonna haul me out with a stretcher if it goes wrong" corners there. Didn't realize "There are no "they are gonna haul me out with a stretcher if it goes wrong" corners there." was a prereq for a good/fun track. Apparently you're not going fast enough. Run out of talent in T9 (going into Thunder Valley) and see what happens! C5 Mafia not going fast enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 T1 and T11 (pro course) are great turns and hardly considered autox turns. I think Mid-OH is one of the most technically challenging tracks out there. It was a very tough track to learn (for me, but I am a slow learner) and technically challenging, but it had zero thrill factor. There are no "they are gonna haul me out with a stretcher if it goes wrong" corners there. Apparently you're not going fast enough... You're talking to the wrong guy for that comment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cucamelsmd15 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I could care less about how they attach at the end (heim joints etc). Im more concerned about being able to shorten/strengthen them. FWIW, I have Racing Beat adjustables on my car currently. The big issue is that when you lower the front end of a Miata below 12.5", the link contacts the upper A-Arm. Im pretty sure thats why Vinny is breaking his (hopefully he can chime in). I know when I test fit my OEMs to go back for next years rules, there was only about 2" of clearance IIRC, probably less. The first time you bounce over the curbing in T3, climbing esses or Hog Pen at VIR, its going to contact and break. I can think of at least one of those options I would like to retain that front sway bar. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 I remember a nice Jaguar flying off sideways off the backstraight and into the catchnet Zee great Mid-Ohio Flying Aston Martin of 2006: There was also a red 350Z that lost its brakes and cartwheeled off the end of that straight and came to rest in a grassy parking area a few years ago as well. Video: Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Swapping cars - not likely to happen. I drive TTE/TTD and TTS/TTU cars. They are different cats... see above photos! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CWeber Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 (edited) of course it won't happen.. after all, this is all 'pie in the sky' discussion anyway Instructing I am offered different cars to drive a lot and often turn down cars to drive that cost more than my house! If I can't afford to 'fix' something I might break, I tend to NOT drive it, or if I do, I drive it at 4/10ths ONLY to show a student a line and nothing more! Edited October 19, 2011 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cobra4B Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 These two look fake... guess they're not based on the other ones. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sperkins Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Watch a few of the PRO races or do some youtube searches and you'll find plenty. I remember a nice Aston Martin flying off sideways off the backstraight and into the catchnet - as well as a Yellow TTU Vette at Nats with much less flipping. There was an Evo in the catchnet prior to Thunder Valley a few years back. T12 at the top of the hill has caused several T-bones (I have vid of a near miss at 105mph). You guys are missing the point he was trying to make. You can have big crashes at any track. Hell I could simulate that Aston flight in my own cul-de-sac if I wanted. The point was that MO is pretty much point and shoot with T1 being the only real corner with any high speed character. It doesn't have any of the epic areas like VIR's uphill esses or Rd Atl's T1, T12 or T4 where you are on the razors edge of traction at super high speeds. The "thrill factor" refers to these places where you honestly do not know if you will make it out the other side. It's one of those things that's hard to understand if you've never experienced it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TurboShortBus Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 These two look fake... guess they're not based on the other ones. I couldn't say one way or the other, but I recall seeing a photo of that flight from a different angle in an old issue of AutoWeek, and it looked like it was hovering over the gravel trap. Mark Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boomn29 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Watch a few of the PRO races or do some youtube searches and you'll find plenty. I remember a nice Aston Martin flying off sideways off the backstraight and into the catchnet - as well as a Yellow TTU Vette at Nats with much less flipping. There was an Evo in the catchnet prior to Thunder Valley a few years back. T12 at the top of the hill has caused several T-bones (I have vid of a near miss at 105mph). You guys are missing the point he was trying to make. You can have big crashes at any track. Hell I could simulate that Aston flight in my own cul-de-sac if I wanted. The point was that MO is pretty much point and shoot with T1 being the only real corner with any high speed character. It doesn't have any of the epic areas like VIR's uphill esses or Rd Atl's T1, T12 or T4 where you are on the razors edge of traction at super high speeds. The "thrill factor" refers to these places where you honestly do not know if you will make it out the other side. It's one of those things that's hard to understand if you've never experienced it. I got his point, I just respectfully disagreed. MO for me has way more of a 'pucker factor' than VIR. After about 3 sessions, VIR was about as fun as Road America was for me. Both high speed, but not like I was searching through the corners trying to figure out lines; it's all pretty straight forward. Maybe it's because my car handles well or because others in my class can carry more speed, but that's my take. And I've held track records at MO; and was within .02 (damn Wonger!) of the winning time in my class at VIR so I'm 'On Pace'. I've never been to Road Atlanta; so can't compare that. That's why I put it on my short list! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clydesdale Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Looks like some of you were born in the wrong era of racing. Pucker factor is Road America in the 60's when you'd go off track and be killed by an impact with a tree. Sorry you missed all the fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cucamelsmd15 Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 These two look fake... guess they're not based on the other ones. Definitely real. Watch the video: How that car doesnt roll once it hits the gravel trap is beyond me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SNAKBITN Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Didn't really look like it hurt the car either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Varkwso Posted October 19, 2011 Share Posted October 19, 2011 Didn't really look like it hurt the car either. Yep - the electrical system starts out broke// Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grintch Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Does anybody know why tire sizes can both have additive points and subtractive points but weight is only additive? I imagine there is a good reason to do it that way, but it seems to me that if the weight points work fairly when reducing weight they would also work fairly when adding ballast-- up to the ballast limit of course. A dyno reclass with higher comp weight would accomplish the same thing and conventional thought around here would have me believe that points are equivalent to reclassing. Couldn't you just allow negative points for additional weight? I ask mostly out of curiosity. After doing a brief search I didn't find anything that would be characterized as an actual reason for it or any specific concerns if it were allowed. Please enlighten me with your speculations, opinions, links or facts if you've got them. Also, it would be nice if you could do a reclass and then take weight points as well if necessary. Given that weight is the only spec that is checked at every event in any consistent way, there seems to be little risk in allowing the adjustments if points are available. The best argument against this is that the reclassing hp/wt curve is non-linear and the lower your weight the worse your hp/weight ratio gets (and vice versa for higher weight) but only when reclassing. A strict base class doesn't have that restriction and the points are linear with respect to weight. I agree, my favorite part of the rules are that the tire width allowance can be used in both positive and negative directions. It really opens up your options. It would be great if the same was true of the weight, especially as a lot of the more street oriented cars are overweight (especially if they have a large driver like me). If you got a credit for being a little heavier you could make up the performance difference with wider tires or some other mod instead of having to strip out your street car to get down to the minimum weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Watch a few of the PRO races or do some youtube searches and you'll find plenty. oh I've seen them, saw andretti flip at china beach in cart, saw hand cartwheel, saw the flying ALMS aston, etc. 1. I have no desire to go to a track and crash 2. I never met a track I didn't like 3. A bad day at any track is better than a good day anywhere else MO is really tricky, but like jason said it's an auto-x with a backstraight. T1 is a great corner, but my impression overall was the total package lacks in the "thrill" department IMHO. Others will disagree and that's cool. Fun? heck ya. It's the "sensation of speed" corners that really are fun to me, the high speed stuff with high throttle application. Diving Turn at Limerock, T3 and T8 at Roebling Road, T12 at Road Atlanta, entering the esses at VIR, esses and T10 at Watkins Glen, T 1, 7-8 at Thunderhill, the banking at CMS, maybe even the chute at summit point and maybe the kink at CMP (CMP is by no means epic though, lol) Those are the ones when you really nail it right, and come back to the paddock you need an oxygen bottle, got to clean your shorts out, and force your eyes down to blink. I haven't been to Road America (yet) but from what I've watched there, that one pretty much gets up there on the thrill chart. Looking forward to AMP's "Eau Rouge" copycat corner... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
drivinhardz06 Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 Swapping cars - not likely to happen. it would likely be a mess, and anybody competing at nats at the pointy end of their class is going to be very familiar and comfy in their car, it would be a tall order (no matter how skilled you are) to jump in somebody else's ride and better them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bnjmn Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 T1 and T11 (pro course) are great turns and hardly considered autox turns. I think Mid-OH is one of the most technically challenging tracks out there. It was a very tough track to learn (for me, but I am a slow learner) and technically challenging, but it had zero thrill factor. There are no "they are gonna haul me out with a stretcher if it goes wrong" corners there. I like Mid-O more than a fast, flowing track like WGI, but then again, I really love them all. I think Mid-O is an excellent course for Nats b/c it is tricky in ways that many courses are not. As for rules - I'd like backdate/update to apply to all models within a range (up to whatever your base class is - so if you have a mid-model car - you can pick from base and mid-model parts, etc). It seems obvious - why not let someone use stuff from models lower (in $ and base classing) than theirs, if all in the same family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brkntrxn Posted October 20, 2011 Share Posted October 20, 2011 As much as the "swapping cars" idea intrigues me, I'd have to have a cash-in-hand deposit for me to give the keys to my TTA C5Z06 to a TTF E30/Miata driver. No offense, but there is a significant difference in value. And there is no way I am ever going to drive someone elses car as fast as they can. Especially if they are a Nationals participant. -Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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